starting new songs

[iheartrocky]

i had a question about strategies to starting new songs. I am a intermediate piano player for 7-8 years, and (despite the cliche) i have played the original version of "Clair de Lune" if that gives any example of what level i am at.

How do you begin to start such a complicated piece like Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin? (this may not seem difficult, but too me it looks so overwhelming!) If i start it I am going like so incredibly slow. If i am going this slow is it too hard of a piece for me and should i wait to play it? Or is this normal for every pianist with a new song?

... basically i am asking how should i approach complex pieces?

-thanks!

[iheartrocky]

I don't need specific advice on Fantasie Impromtu... just starting complicated pieces in general and what is the normal pace.
-thanks!

[mound]

listen to recordings, as many different artists as you can find. Listen enough so that the entire piece is in your head, in various interpretations so you don't automatically go to "copy" one of them. Listen while sitting quietly. Try to envision what the score might look like from listening alone. Listen while reading the score, see how right or wrong your vision of the score was. Start to break the score apart finding unique and repeated phrases and content. Start doing a harmonic analysis of the piece. Perhaps find the major melodic and harmonic ideas and re-writing the score as an outline.  Notice how you've done a LOT of work before you've even touched the piano? The point being - study the piece from every conceivable angle before you touch the piano. Then begin doing some investigative work by sight-reading the piece hands together. Find what will be easy, and what will require technique that you do not yet have. Break everything down into chunks that are manageable (read all of Bernhard's posts on this site for lots of good stuff) and start at it. As Bernhard would say (paraphrased) "piano is not complicated, it is complex"  - that is, a piece is huge collection of easy tasks. Take the most virtuosic piece you can imagine, and then take only the first two notes of that piece - those two notes are likely very easy.

So the point being, don't just dive right in and try to read through before doing any preliminary work. The more work you do away from the piano first, the less time you will actually have to spend at the piano once you begin.  (of course if you are advanced enough that you can sight read through anything right away hands together, this probably doesn't apply)

[bernhard]

Mound is absolutely right. Do everything he said. Then do this (the best strategy for any complex piece): Outline it! What does that mean?

It means rewriting the piece so that you have a number of scores with increasing degrees of complexity. Start by learning the simplest score (the first “layer”), then go to the next score which has the simplest layer plus another layer. Keep “layering”  until you are playing the piece as originally written. Just planning and executing an outline will take care of most of the steps that Mound suggested.

For instance, have a look at the first passage of Chopin’s etude op. 25 no.1:



It looks fairly complex. Now look at the basic outline: Easy as pie!



(the Fantasie Impromptu is particularly amenable to this sort of treatment).

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[alphabox]

For any piece i want to learn that seems overwhelming at first sight, what i do is, as mound suggested, listen to recordings. After a couple of run throughs, i start listening and trying to follow along in the score, which helps me memorize most if not all the piece (to the point that i can hum or sing it to myself in my head [to some degree]). After this, once i actually start learning to play it, everything just seems to fall into place faster and easier, and suddenly the piece doesnt seem overwhelming. Doing this has helped me especially with fant imp, and other pieces like moonlight movt. 3 and pathetique. Right now im doing it with rach 3, while i cant expect to be able to play it any time soon, im softening it up so that it wont seem as overwhelming when im ready .

[will]

Bernhard: great to see some visuals to go along with the info.  Thanks.
BTW What software did you use to create the score?

[happyface94]

I think it is important you "get" the rhythm of the the 4 over 3 before you start the piece. I myself have practiced it measure per measure to absorb well the finger mouvements with the ryhthm. Start slow, dont go too fast too quick, this is when your fingers start to mess up and you all get tangled up.

Line up well your rhythm, the rest is simple. As most Chopin pieces, once you "get it", it becomes totally easier.

[bernhard]

Bernhard: great to see some visuals to go along with the info.  Thanks.
BTW What software did you use to create the score?

Personal composer. Have a look here:

https://www.pcomposer.com/

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[will]

https://www.pcomposer.com/

Cheers. I'll check it out.