from beginning or end?

[BoliverAllmon]

I recently went to a teacher's symposium kinda thing. The clinitian was talking about how to make practice more effective. He used alot of scientific hoopla about the brain and all (it was interesting, but over my head) one thing he did mention was that every piece should be started from the end. One should learn the last measure first. That way you will be always having a since of finality and accomplishment. This in turn creates positive reinforcement and a better learning environment. What do you guys think?

boliver

[Egghead]

I recently went to a teacher's symposium kinda thing. The clinitian was talking about how to make practice more effective. He used alot of scientific hoopla about the brain and all (it was interesting, but over my head) one thing he did mention was that every piece should be started from the end. One should learn the last measure first. That way you will be always having a since of finality and accomplishment. This in turn creates positive reinforcement and a better learning environment. What do you guys think?

boliver

This excellent idea "start what you want to learn from the end" has repeatedly been suggested by the usual suspects.

I have come across it in different contexts, also (other than piano playing) and it is very useful.
Personal experience: especially for learning a few bars by heart it is an incredibly useful technique. I found that a key is that you keep repeating what you already learnt AND your attention is highest for the new bit - at the beginning of each repetition.
If you add new bits at the end, rather than the beginning, you "suddenly" have to turn on your full attention after already playing for a little while.

Also, as long as you add a new bit at the beginning, you notice immediately if the previous new bit isnt solid yet. If you add new bits at the end, you only notice at the end - having wasted a whole run on repeating stuff you already know.

Dont think there is any need to strictly start a whole piece at the end though. Will depend on what you find hardest technically, i.e. what requries most practice time.

In terms of motivation, you are more likely to "finish" a piece if you start learning it from the end: you will want to get to the beginning some time! Playing through it, you also find yourself on ever more familiar territory the further you get. Good news, again.
Try it out!

So much for the moment.
Egghead.

[bernhard]

Egghead said most of what I would have said while I was typing my answer (Have to type faster!)

Anyway, here it is in another words:

Logically it should make no difference going from the beginning or from the end. Psychologically it makes a staggering difference.

When you start at the beginning, you are moving from what you know to what you do not know (yet).  Soon this becomes a major block, since you soon know the first few bar so perfection and then you have to face a new bar you are completely clumsy with .You feel discouraged and dismayed every time you have to face the piece. You end up with a common syndrome: you know just the beginning of a lot of pieces, and never seem to be able to satisfactorily complete any piece. And even if you do, usually the first bars are far better (because they have been played more) then the last bars.

When you start from the end, the whole situation reverses. Now you are moving from something you don’t know to a passage you already know. This generates enthusiasm and motivate you to keep learning the previous bar. Instead of a psychological block you get a psychological boost.

It is easy to verify all this. Select two pieces, learn one from the beginning and the other back to front. The difference is staggering.

Having said that, I would not recommend learning every piece back to front.

I would recommend learning every piece by learning the most difficult bars/passages first. Then learn it back to front.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[abell88]

Many years ago I worked at a residence for developmentally delayed adults. At one of my training sessions, we were told that if a task we were trying to teach had a rewarding end, then you should start by training the final step..."reverse chaining" was the technical term for it.  For example, making a cup of hot chocolate: at first our client would simply do the final stir and then get to drink the hot chocolate...later they could pour in the water, stir and drink, and so on. In the same way, coming to the end of a piece is rewarding...you get a nice sense of completion when you play that final V-I cadence.

[BoliverAllmon]

ok, so I decided to try the backwards thingy to the Pastoral. Well surprisingly I learn faster and seem to have a huge smile on my face when doing it. pretty cool really.

[Rach3]

Agh! I'm very intrigued. I thought this sounded like quackery, but it has some sense to it. I'm going to test this; I'll take two pieces of comparable length and difficulty, from the same genre, and I'll spend a predetermined length of time on them, and observe the results. I'll learn and practice one forwards, and one backwards. I'll post observations on the forum as I go, if no one minds. What do you think?

Ok then, could someone objectively choose my test repertoire? I ask that it's not excessively demanding, but not sight-readable either, and not too short.

-Rach3

[BoliverAllmon]

that sounds good. test studies.

boliver

[steinwayguy]

ok, so I decided to try the backwards thingy to the Pastoral. Well surprisingly I learn faster and seem to have a huge smile on my face when doing it. pretty cool really.

Oh that coda is wicked

[BoliverAllmon]

Oh that coda is wicked

I am guessing you are talking about the final movement? It does look fun.

[Nightscape]

I had always learned from front to back also (its just what comes natural) but about a two months ago I started with the end to beginning technique and the difference is incredible.  I kid you not.....

For instance, take the Prelude in G major, book 2 of Bach.  Learning the notes (memorizing them) from beginning to end would have probably taken me a month at least.  But using this new method, I recently learned and memorized the notes in three days! Actually, it works so quickly, that I probably could have done it in one day if I really applied myself.  Granted, this is an easier piece (surely one of the easiest Bach preludes) but still as you can see I was able to learn it 10 times faster - and have more fun doing it at the same time.

Now that I've learned the notes of the Bach prelude, I'm going to try going through it again from back to front, this time working on more subtle details of musicality.  This will of course take longer and more attention, but I suspect it will be much faster than doing the same thing front to back.

So please, at least try this method out on an easy piece and see the benefits for yourself!

[chopinisque]

Confused: Do you mean learn the last bar first and then working backwards or do you mean playing the last note followed by the second last note and so on (applying retrograde to the piece)?

[jeff]

Confused: Do you mean learn the last bar first and then working backwards

yes

[6ft 4]

not even last bar perhaps the last phrase.

[Torp]

Confused: Do you mean learn the last bar first and then working backwards or do you mean playing the last note followed by the second last note and so on (applying retrograde to the piece)?

Do Not apply retrograde.

Let's say you have a piece 4 bars in length.  You learn the 4th bar as written.  Once that is learned you learn the 3rd bar as written and follow it with the 4th bar.  Continue this process back to the 1st bar.

Jef