Octave glissando

[dikai_yang]

well, i'm still working on the brahm's variations on a theme by paganini book 1/2
the notes are pretty much all there now...
and i have to overcome the octave glissando section
my hands are just not big enough
is there any way around it??
---
info:
my hand fits comfortably into an octave
to play 9th, i need to play the notes "off" the keys, but sufficient
cannot in any way touch the 10th key
so right now, i play the octave glissando using the 6th glissando...
or is there any other way??
i emailed mei ting sun a long time ago
he said apparently there has been some guy who plays the octave glissando with the thumb pointing downwards.... ouch that'd hurt...

[jhon]

Isn't it the "Paganini Rhapsody" (by Rachmaninoff, Op.43) also have an ocatve glissando in the last variation?  Anyway, I believe octave glissandos really require strong left-hand since most glissandos in most pieces are put in right.

[thalbergmad]

The great pianist Josef Llehvine played them as stacatto octaves instead of glissando. But he was rather special.

[pita bread]

That's some mad octave technique right there...

[steinwayguy]

You're learning both books of the Paganini Variations and you can't do an octave glissando? 


Wait a second, how else are you goign to play an octave glissando without pointing your thumb downwards?

[pita bread]

The octave gliss shouldn't be that bad- the thumb takes the blunt of the impact, and the pinky should be fine since the keys should have already been depressed by the thumb.

[dikai_yang]

the first thing is tho...
after you "curl" you thumb, you should still be able to reach an octave.... with the curled thumb....
mine is not even close...
unless i were really to do the glissando with my thumb pointing "downwards

[musicsdarkangel]

Isn't it the "Paganini Rhapsody" (by Rachmaninoff, Op.43) also have an ocatve glissando in the last variation? 

Holy CRAP, I hope not.

I'm learning that haha

[musicsdarkangel]

The great pianist Josef Llehvine played them as stacatto octaves instead of glissando. But he was rather special.

Easily the most ridiculous technique ever.

Rachmaninoff himself admitted it.  He was 2nd chair to Lhevinne (they had chairs back then in the Russian conservatory)

[pita bread]

Does anyone have a recording of him actually doing that?

[ahmedito]

I had a very hard time with octave glissandos in Bartok's sonata for 2 pianos and percussion. I just got the hang of them over time. I have a friend that swears that she actually saw one of the Grimaud sisters actually put her pinky in her mouth before doing them. Tried it, and yes, saliva makes it so much easier. Gross wet piano technique

[thalberg]

Yes, pinky in the mouth is excellent. If a piano has a particularly heavy action, you can hurt yourself on an octave glissando, and so a quick lick is quite sensible in my opinion.

For me, I found that licking the fifth finger helped me to LEARN how to do an octave glissando--now I can do them dry.

As far as your question about doing them with the thumb pointing down, I know what you mean.  I personally can curl my thumb and still reach the octave, but if you can't, I just don't know.  One thing that helps me is a very slight pronation of my whole forearm as I do the glissando.

[thalberg]

Okay, I just now went over to the piano and figured out how to  do it with my thumb pointing down.  (The pronation thing only works if your thumb is curled so disregard that.)

If you can reach a ninth on the outsides of the keys, then you can do what I will tell you.  You need to expand your hand slightly larger than the octave (which you can do).  Play the bottom note with the first knuckle on your thumb (not with the tip like you usually do), and angle the tip of your thumb upward so that it can catch the next key.  You will have to experiment with the angle of your hand since I'm not there to demonstrate.  Also, in order to do this, your wrist will need to be very low.  Believed it or not, this is actually really easy to  do and doesn't hurt at all.

[dikai_yang]

this is the best reply ever dude...
i'm gonna go try it...
geez... i'm seeing some light!!
it sounds very plausable

[thierry13]

If you have big enough hands, bow your pinky so that he slide on the keys, and let the thumb follow.