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[cpe_meyer]

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[phil13]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but... maybe this guy has a point.

Phil

[perfect_pitch]

Did I miss something??? 

[chopintod]

You missed no point.  In the Repertoire board, cpe_meyer posted    -   

Why?  He is making an important point here: all pieces we have come to know and love can be represented by a single dash: nothing.  A pause, a breath of air, a slight break in the infinite history of mankind.  These pieces may very well lead from one place to another, but cpe_meyer is saying that these pieces have no meaning within themselves. 

-

This is a powerful statement.  We all know basic sentence structure: a dash, by itself, has no meaning.  However, when combined in a logical position with two separate entities, one leading and one following, we derive meaning from this symbol.

Repertoire (i.e., the various musical pieces we know, understand, comprehend, etc.) has no meaning by itself.  However, when placed in combination with two separate elements, the LEADING ELEMENT and the FOLLOWING ELEMENT, we are able to derive meaning from these pieces.

The LEADING ELEMENT: the knowledge, prejudices, understandings, etc., we have before a hearing of a piece.

The FOLLOWING ELEMENT: the emotion we extract from the piece, which leads to a change in knowledge, prejudices, understandings, etc.

Therefore, the process is such:

1) We GAIN knowledge (through our previous experiences, gained from a finite list of other dashes)
2) We FUNCTION with this knowledge (faulty or otherwise, we move about our daily business and use our current knowledge during this process)
3) We HEAR a musical piece.
4) We EXTRACT meaning from this piece (how does this piece make us feel? happy? sad? energized? depressed?)
5) We TRANSLATE this meaning into further knowledge.
6) We GAIN knowledge (and the cycle continues)

If we had no knowledge before we heard a musical piece, and we gained no knowledge afterwards, then the piece has no meaning. 

In a slightly less philosophical manner, we can look at music as one of the driving forces behind the advancement of our culture.  In this instance, the LEADING ELEMENT is time before the CREATION of a piece, and the FOLLOWING ELEMENT is time after the creation of a piece.

cpe_meyer has made an intelligent, philosophical point with his post.  We would do best to analyze his post and gain further knowledge from it.

Terry

[chopintod]

As a PS to the previous post, it would be wise to check out cpe_meyer's first post from February of this year.  It makes a similar point with a slightly varied manner of delivery.

Terry.

[stevie]

best thread ever, you all make great points.

[phil13]

I agree, that's why I dug it up.

Phil

[chopintod]

best thread ever, you all make great points.

I agree, that's why I dug it up.

Phil

 

Stuff like this is fun.

Terry

[phil13]

Yeah, it's nice to have a silly topic amongst all the seriousness. Although, maybe this should be moved to 'Miscellaneous' since it's not really about repertoire.

Phil

[stevie]

Yeah, it's nice to have a silly topic amongst all the seriousness. Although, maybe this should be moved to 'Miscellaneous' since it's not really about repertoire.

Phil

it is pianoforum's equivelant to cage's 4'33

leave this young child be, he has done no harm to us, we may nurture and feed him, let the child grow, allow him to blossom.

[llamaman]

Or Ligeti's 0'00.

[chopintod]

Or Yatsumoa's 12414'320394823.

Check it out if you don't believe.

Terry



PS: sorry, but I have no clue what you two are talking about, so I thought I'd just inject mine in there.

[phil13]

Or Yatsumoa's 12414'320394823.

Check it out if you don't believe.

Terry



PS: sorry, but I have no clue what you two are talking about, so I thought I'd just inject mine in there.

They're pieces of music. Cage's 4'33" is a piece that requires the pianist to lift the piano and not play it for 4 minutes and 33 seconds. The point of the piece was to make the audience realize that silence is extremely rare, and to listen to the sounds eminating from around them. Ligeti's 0'00" is basically the same thing, only done in zero time. Probably has something to do with the time of a piece in the same manner that 4'33" has to do with silence in a piece, although I'm not sure.

Phil

[JCarey]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5225.0.html

[stevie]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,5225.0.html

hahaha, the guys on that thread seem pissed off about it, thats EXACTLY what cage wanted!

he was a musical comedian

nothing id love more than to play a concert and announce an encore 'cage 4'33'
then sit in silence...

it would be rather amusing

[JCarey]

If I ever decide to do a large competition like the Van Cliburn or the likes, I might include 4'33" in my program. I believe they give you an hour to play, so I'd still have plenty of time left over.

Hopefully the judges will have a sense of humor.

[chopintod]

 

Thanks for the enlightenment.  Figured they were pieces, but wasn't sure what exactly they were.

So, the entire piece is lifting up the piano and not playing?

Sounds like I could play that one...

But it better not be in four staves, right JCarey?  Hahahahaha......just joking

Terry

[ahinton]

better not be in four staves, right JCarey?  Hahahahaha......just joking

The number of staves is surely as irrelevant in Cage's work as it is in Sorabji's - at least to those who end up listening to the latter and experiencing the fact of there being nothing inherent in the piece to which to listen in the former.

The most constructive aspect of what we have here from the originator of this thread is probably the musical and literary silence to which he/ she indirectly draws attention by reason of instigating it; some luxury indeed, when one encounters certain of the off-topic spleen-venting and other digressions to which these kinds of discussion sometimes end up becoming subject...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

If I ever decide to do a large competition like the Van Cliburn or the likes, I might include 4'33" in my program. I believe they give you an hour to play, so I'd still have plenty of time left over.

Hopefully the judges will have a sense of humor.

As you are a composer, why don't you compose a piece called 55' 27" so you could fit in both.

[chopintod]

The number of staves is surely as irrelevant in Cage's work as it is in Sorabji's - at least to those who end up listening to the latter and experiencing the fact of there being nothing inherent in the piece to which to listen in the former.

The most constructive aspect of what we have here from the originator of this thread is probably the musical and literary silence to which he/ she indirectly draws attention by reason of instigating it; some luxury indeed, when one encounters certain of the off-topic spleen-venting and other digressions to which these kinds of discussion sometimes end up becoming subject...

Best,

Alistair

Yes, spleen-venting and other digressions are always fun.

And, if you didn't notice, I was joking about the whole "better not be in four staves" part.  When there are no notes to play, it pretty much doesn't matter how many staves there are; could be 100 if you wanted it to be.

Terry

[ahinton]

And, if you didn't notice, I was joking about the whole "better not be in four staves" part.  When there are no notes to play, it pretty much doesn't matter how many staves there are; could be 100 if you wanted it to be.

Yes, of course I noticed; indeed, I implied as much in my response...

Best,

Alistair

[mlsmithz]

I've heard a possibly apocryphal tale about a performance of 4'33" which probably would have required four staves were it transcribed exactly as it was performed.  The story goes that the piece was performed either by Cage or in Cage's presence in some sort of university music building or other building which housed both practice rooms and recital halls.  Apparently while 4'33" was being performed there was a pianist in a practice room adjoining the recital hall practising the Grieg piano concerto, and apparently having a rough time of it as he kept breaking off and swearing at the piano and/or himself and/or Grieg.  The walls in this building were not properly soundproofed so the audience in the recital hall could hear this practice session very clearly.  Eventually the organisers of the concert sent someone to tell the Grieg gorer to shut up and/or move to another practice room.  Cage, however, was delighted by this turn of events. (The four staves, then, would be two for the piano, one for the voices of the frustrated pianist and the irate organiser, and then one - or more - for 4'33" itself.)

If the story is actually fiction and such a performance has never taken place, perhaps it should (minus Cage's presence unless someone feels like digging him up and propping him up in a chair).  I'd organise it myself if I had any inroads to the music department at my university.  (Since my rendition of the Grieg piano concerto is abysmal, I would, of course, ask to be the one practising it in the next room. )

[stevie]

Did I miss something??? 

i think you are missing the point entirely.

[nanabush]

So you can go to bed dead?  And not wake up alive?

          











(ps. don't read what I wrote)

[BoliverAllmon]

So you can go to bed dead?  And not wake up alive?

          











(ps. don't read what I wrote)

too late already did.

[chopintod]

 

I wonder if anyone actually read my entire post.  I actually thought about it; took me about 20 minutes to come up with it; haha.

 

Terry

[pianobabe_56]

I read it! I was impressed. 

[chopintod]

I read it! I was impressed. 

 

Always nice getting compliments from a pianobabe.

[BoliverAllmon]

I wonder if anyone actually read my entire post.  I actually thought about it; took me about 20 minutes to come up with it; haha.

 

Terry

I thought it was ensightful

[chopintod]

I thought it was ensightful

Well that's good.

[phil13]

I read it too, but I'd like to call attention to something Terry...

I checked out cpe_meyer's first post. Koji quoted his post, and it had something very non-pertaining-to-this-topic. (talking about bootleg recordings). Yet above, his post is erased, and replaced with a dash (-). I suspect that, though we found something philosophical in the post, there was truly nothing at all. He simply erased it because no one answered it, or because he got banned for whatever was there. Or he didn't care and is WATCHING US RIGHT NOW...

<.<

>.>

Spooky.

Phil

[dinosaurtales]

-

@?

[chopintod]

I read it too, but I'd like to call attention to something Terry...

I checked out cpe_meyer's first post. Koji quoted his post, and it had something very non-pertaining-to-this-topic. (talking about bootleg recordings). Yet above, his post is erased, and replaced with a dash (-). I suspect that, though we found something philosophical in the post, there was truly nothing at all. He simply erased it because no one answered it, or because he got banned for whatever was there. Or he didn't care and is WATCHING US RIGHT NOW...

<.<

>.>

Spooky.

Phil

Shhh.....just go back to sleep now....it's ok.....

Don't worry......everything will be o....k.....