Similar pieces to Rachmaninov's Prelude in G Minor

[tompilk]

Hi. I have recently played (or tried to play) Rachmaninov's G minor prelude Op.23 no. 5 in a concert at my school. However, I hadn't got the middle section sorted out to a good enough standard to play, so I skipped out bars around 30 to 50. This actually fit together quite well but was very repetetive. It impressed everyone, but to you experts it is probably terrible...however I am only 15 (I have an excuse).  I have also included the (rather embarassing) recording and wish for some constructive feedback... I know the piece is not finished (edited towards my likeing so I could play it) . Afterwards I was wondering if anybody had any ideas for pieces similar to that for the next concert. I like that style of piece, but I am not really the standard I ought to be to be playing it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Tom Pilkington
P.S. Please don't get angry with me for not playing all the notes, but please comment on the enjoyability!!!

[pita bread]

I don't approve of your cut, and your accuracy is off in parts.

What I found impressive was your power and drive (and your guts to go out there and play an incomplete piece). You've got the right spirit in the piece, now keep working on it, smooth out any part thats choppy, get the right notes.

[maul]

Honestly, I don't think you were ready for this piece. Your technique just isn't developed enough. I know you don't want me commenting on this, but it really is the main point here: if a piece is going to have massive amounts of wrong notes, blotched parts, missing sections, it shouldn't be played for an audience. I couldn't find it enjoyable. If you do think you are ready, you just need to slow it down, make sure you have everything, and then slowly speed it up. I also played this piece when I was 14 so age is not an excuse. Have you tried the C# minor prelude? Although much easier, that piece should definitely be mastered before attempting this one.

[tompilk]

Thanks for all your comments. I knew that it wasn't at all to a very good standard but it is my first recorded piece and I enjoy playing it, although incomplete. I just hope ther were no Rachmaninov fans in the audience. I understand all your omments completely - I could have written them myself!!! - but thanks again.
Tom Pilkington

P.S. I'm also not a prodigy and practise only 30mins max a day - so please don't tell me how old you were when you played it!!!
P.P.S. I have played C# Minor Prelude (not very well)

[tompilk]

oops - hwhatam i doing?!?!?!

[sklebil]

Hi tompilk, I think it's a good start. Work on the middle section though because that's IMO really needed there to contrast the alla marcia part. And it's so beautiful.
I'll try to be constructive. I had a feeling that you were "chasing yourself". Maybe playing a bit slower would make it better and more pleasing to listen to. You'd get rid of some wrong notes and unwanted accents I guess.
Also, I feel it's a bit too much "banging" at certain places. I would like it better if you tried to make the mellody stand out and play the "upper" notes  (the groups of 2x1/16th+1x1/8th) more gently. You can also try to vary the diction with which you play the repetitive main theme. Keep going, you'll get there! Good luck.

[tompilk]

Thanks for your kind comments on my Rachmaninov Prelude in G Minor Sklebil - they are really useful and, as I requested, constructive comments. I will take these into account and post the completed piece on this post  - eventually, be it in 3 weeks or 3 years (including that beatuiful middle section)!!!!! Thanks for holding yourself from saying it was rubbish. I generally take on board what you say if it's nice, not mantioning any names...cough...that nasty...cough...ian memminger...cough. Did I say something? Anyway, Thanks,
Thomas Pilkington

[thierry13]

I had a feeling that you were "chasing yourself". Maybe playing a bit slower would make it better and more pleasing to listen to. You'd get rid of some wrong notes and unwanted accents I guess.

If mastered, playing it under this speed sounds like if it's never going to end, really too slow, not enough power and passion. I really think it wouldn't be good to hear it slower.

[sklebil]

If mastered, playing it under this speed sounds like if it's never going to end, really too slow, not enough power and passion. I really think it wouldn't be good to hear it slower.

I think the speed mark 108 is very challenging. I have a number of recordings of this piece, including Rachmaninoff himself (which someone posted  a link to on this forum. I think the thread was callled 'Rach can't play his own pieces' (I disagree again ) - and he is rather slow, but still sounds good - it's not just the speed that makes it a great piece. Otherwise I also prefer faster tempo. But it's better to play slower and precisely and musically correct than too fast and only 'apporximately correct'. I think once he gets all the notes right and finishes the middle section, he (i mean tompilk, not Rach ) can speed it up. He seems to have the drive as someone here has put it.

[thierry13]

But it's better to play slower and precisely and musically correct than too fast and only 'apporximately correct'.

I meant it's better faster with control. Of course it's better slower and musically if you cant master faster. But I like better faster with the same control.

[maul]

My post was not mean in any way, tompilk. I was simply stating my honest opinion. I'm not going to water it down. If you can't accept other people's opinions just because they don't match with what you want to hear, then don't ask.

[tompilk]

Yes. I know you made an honest opinion but I still think you could have said something positive. There must have been something in the piece which you appreciated. I agree that  everyone has to have their own opinion and that you said what you thought.  :'(It's just that it didn't seem that you made any effort to praise or congratulate me the slightest bit!!! Anyway, thanks for responces,
Thomas PIlkington
P.S. Does anyone have any more suggestions for pieces similar?!?!?!?

[bachmaninoff08]

 A very valiant attempt at one of my favorite Rachmaninoff pieces.  I have just a few suggestions for you:
1.  Practice the melody and the chords seperately, not only does this help with your accuracy but it also helps you to bring out the melody more when playing.
2.  Practice SLOW!  So you don't miss the big chord jumps, because when you dod it's really obivous.
3.  When you decide to learn the slow section make sure you bring out the top right hand note, and play the left hand very light and smooth.
4.  Practice SLOW!
5.  Make sure to keep your arms and hands relaxed throughout the piece, it helps keep you from getting so tired and will improve your accuracy.
     
       Good Luck,
Those were just some of the things that helped me when i learned the piece last year.  Im sure it will be fantastic once your done learning it, you've got the power and energy you need to play this piece.  Did I mention it's one of my favorite Rachmaninoff pieces?

[bachmaninoff08]

P.S.  I'm new here!  That was my first ever post!  Here's just a little bit about me:
I'm 15.
I live in Texas.
I've played piano for three years.
Rachmaninoff and Liszt are my favorite composers.

[pita bread]

Rachmaninoff and Liszt are my favorite composers.

Typical.

Welcome to PianoStreet!

[tompilk]

Welcome Bahcmaninov08!!! Thanks for your words of advice - I'm glad you could pick up on the things which need doing better rather than just telling me off - I know it's hard!!! I will take your advice and, after acting on everyone's advice (thank you sooooo much by the way), I will post the finished piece - though it may be a while for another concert to come along so it can be recorded!!!
Thanks again,
Tom Pilkington
P.S. Any suggestions for another piece to play?!?!?
P.P.S. I agree I need to keep calmer - my hands ache so bad by the time I reach the end!!!

[llamaman]

You are playing that and you practice 30min a day. Err....OK then......

[tompilk]

You are playing that and you practice 30min a day. Err....OK then......

I don't understand your comment. Could you please tell me what you meant by it.

[llamaman]

As in: How can you learn such pieces with such little practice time?

[tompilk]

Because I love the piece, practise it rather than the pieces I am supposed to be playing for my Grade 8 and I have been playing since I was 4. I didn't think the recording was that good for me not to be able to play it with 30mins a day for about 2 months!?!?!? Anyway, thanks for the reply

[bachmaninoff08]

Because I love the piece, practise it rather than the pieces I am supposed to be playing for my Grade 8 and I have been playing since I was 4.

No offense but if you've been playing since you were four, shouldn't you be playing really hard pieces. i.e. La Campanella?  I've only been playing for three years and seem to be about as proficient as piano as you, and I average about 1 hour per day.

[dmk]

I know you said not to get angry, but why on earth would you perform something that you can't play completely?

There is no respite from the constant pulsating of the alla marcia section without the slow bit, very important.  If you performed this for an educated audience I am afraid you would be crucified.

People cut bars out of pieces often but it has to done in an educated and musical way.  If you were my student I would never have let you perform a piece with that big a chunk taken out and, in particular, taking out something which reduces this musical satisfaction of the piece.

As for constructive tips I would echo some of the thoughts of others:

1/ Work on the voicing of the chords, play the melody on its own.  I would recommend singing the melody to yourself while playing it on its own and then playing it with the chords so you can hear it.

2/ Don't play the piece at a speed that you can't handle and start shanking the chords.  This piece is very chord heavy and thick textured, when you start missing chords because you can't make them it starts to sound hollow and quite obvious, work on these slowly.  I think some of it may have to do with playing your chords with a stiff wrist and 'parking' the notes on the chords rather than playing 'them'.  Sorry this is really hard to describe in words and difficult to explain without seeing you play.

Good luck, keep plugging away at it.....

DMK

[tompilk]

Thanks for all the tips - I know it's repetitive as I said in the first post but I wasn't playing it for a competition ar masterclass!!! I was waiting for orchestra to start and was practising when the music teacher came up to me and demanded me to play it!!! As for me playing since I was 4, all I have to say is that I guess I didn't improve muchwhen I was younger. I did Yamaha courses and exams. I don't know if it makes a difference. Also, next excuse, I just play for fun and at school, no-one is really going to know the pieces you choose to play. It was a GCSE composition concert and i'm in the year below - dragged in (and I'm not doing music GCSE) to play this piece. Sorry if I offended any of you, but it is my first recorded piece and I was rather proud playing it at 4 days notice!!! (even though I had practised it loads before). Anyway, I will take everyones advice, and I do agree that the song sounds shallow when I don't play the chords in the left hand towards the end of the piece. Thanks,
Tom Pilkington
 

[princessdecadence]

I knew that it wasn't at all to a very good standard but it is my first recorded piece and I enjoy playing it, although incomplete. I just hope ther were no Rachmaninov fans in the audience. 

I am Rachmaninov's own and your recording is a complete disgrace to his name. I kid  Nah I think with much more practice you'll get there, mind you it is a hard piece.  The wrong notes are very strange though, I was thinking that it might just be the quality of the recording?  I've been wanting to play this piece but when I got a teacher and he told me I was doolally to play it that way I resorted to Chopin's lovely nocturne and I'm alright.  I need to increase my fingers flexibility, how to do proper staccato, etc etc etc.  I'll wait.

Requires a lot of courage to cut the most beautiful part of the song and play on...

I quote Liesl from Sound of Music "Just wait a year...or two..."

[zheer]

I will tell you why i like haw you play this song Tompilk. For a start you keep in time no matter what , for example at one point it sounded like you fell of you piano stool but still played in time. Secondly its so rythmically playd that at times it sounds as though its a demented waltz. Thirdly you make it sound so dangerious and difficult its as though you are fighting a monster probably the prelude. Keep up the good work.

[tompilk]

Zheer likes to leer.... hahaha... anyway. Thanks for all the destructive power of your words... 

[skeptolotapus]

Thisn one of my favorite songs!  I dream of someday being good enough to try it.  I think this recordin is an inspiration that I willl listen to to get me to pracatice.  I can't believe your that young! 

[beanman]

i enjoyed listening to this but you need to smooth it out  and thats all really, to do this slow it down and play all the notes really hard and equal volume. your fingers learn well like this

[letters]

well done! i think it sounds pretty good spesh in the circumstances you described. i dont think you just perform it again without the middle section it really completes the piece. just try and practice it slower perhaps? im completely crap at this i cud play the first 8 bars and thats about it so i cant really comment lol

[jjs238]

I do not wish to sound rude, I think we have all been in that place where we heard something and wanted to learn it.

1) This is the way I play it when I'm drunk on New Years, like really drunk.
2) Do not continue to practice this until you can play every note correctly and slowly.
3) You do seem to have what it takes to play this, from what I heard, just practice properly.
4) Do not ever perform until you have it all learned and can express it properly.
5) You need to sit down and relearn this song entirely and correctly.

I wish you the best but you need to learn this correctly, if you keep learning a song incorrectly, it's hard to forget once you master the incorrect notes, fingering and everything else. Trust me on this one.

[starstruck5]

I can understand your brave desire to attempt this - even though you are clearly not ready. 

I can't think of any piece in the lit which is like the G Minor prelude - you could try playing 'Soaring' from Fantasiestucke by Schumann - it has a similar spirit to the Rach - but is easier technically - though by no means easy!

[pytheamateur]

I can understand your brave desire to attempt this - even though you are clearly not ready. 

I can't think of any piece in the lit which is like the G Minor prelude - you could try playing 'Soaring' from Fantasiestucke by Schumann - it has a similar spirit to the Rach - but is easier technically - though by no means easy!

Maybe Brahms's Ballade, Op 118 No 3?  I'm bad at theory and all the analytical stuff but it seems to me there is at least a superficial resemblance there.  The Ballade is less demanding as well IMHO.

[rachfan]

Um... Tompilk created this thread in 2005 and last responded to it that same year.  We're almost into 2012, so that was 7 years ago.  He said he was 15 then, so now he's 22 and probably he's graduated from college and is working.  Somehow I really doubt that he's still looking for repertoire recommendations for his "next concert"!

David

[megadodd]

Haha! I wonder how his next concert was :')

[49410enrique]

Um... Tompilk created this thread in 2005 and last responded to it that same year.  We're almost into 2012, so that was 7 years ago.  He said he was 15 then, so now he's 22 and probably he's graduated from college and is working.  Somehow I really doubt that he's still looking for repertoire recommendations for his "next concert"!

David

lol drat! you beat me to it. oh well, i already have the alarm up, no sense in wasting a perfectly good ota (i'm sure there are those less fortunate than i who would love an ota so i'm not about to just throw it away)

[rachfan]

Hi megadodd,

Let's hope he could play all the notes and that he got a big ovation! 

David

[rachfan]

Hi enrique

 

Well done ota!  If occasionally members want to bring back a fabulous recording from the far back pages and mention that as the reason, I'm OK with that.  But more often it happens that someone simply didn't look at the date of the original posting, date of the last reply, and check to see if the poster is even still active.  And then there are other situations.  Awhile back someone dragged from the archives one of my very old recordings of a Rachmaninoff prelude from Op. 23, didn't comment on it at all, but wanted to know if anyone could tell him an edition with complete fingering of a DIFFERENT prelude in that opus (nope!) or if someone would share theirs with him!  

The thing is, there is such a high velocity crush of new postings coming onto the front page of Audition Room, we have all we can do just to deal with that!

Again, thanks for creating that alert.

David

[starstruck5]

   I shall certainly look at the date from now on - they should put the date bigger!

[rachfan]

Hi starstruck,

Probably we've all dug up a fossilized post at one time or another.  Don't worry about it.    It's good that you show that much interest in the site to explore the old archives.  There are some real gems back there.  By the way, you might not have noticed the Index to Audition Room at the top of the list. It's organized alphabetically by composer and is scrollable.  It's an easy, quick shortcut for finding recordings of interest.

David

[gracesydney]

Dear Tom,

I came across this thread online. I had to register to say something because I'm sorry but I couldn't help laughing throughout your performance. No offence but I can't believe your teacher let you perform this piece like this in front of an audience. Many people can appreciate good music even though they don't play the piano or don't play this piece. But you do have the drive and the motivation. You've got enough good suggestions here. I just can't emphasize enough that you need to relearn this piece, slow down and keep practising to increase the speed while maintaining accuracy. Good luck.