Kinderscenen

[gaer]

Here is roughly the first half, through Träumerei. If anyone is interested, I'll post the second half later.

Gary

[leahcim]

If anyone is interested, I'll post the second half later.

Please do.

[gaer]

Please do.

Okay. I'll try to do it now. I just wish I could get some feedback. Schumann is VERY difficult for me. I'm much more in tune with music that is wild or very moody, and the subtlety here is alien to me, although I love the music. I feel like I put everything into this except my blood. I finished most of a Beethoven sonata movement and the Chopin Op. 10, No. 4 Etude in the middle of this work because the Schumann was so hard for me.

Gary

[leahcim]

Okay. I'll try to do it now. I just wish I could get some feedback. Schumann is VERY difficult for me. I'm much more in tune with music that is wild or very moody, and the subtlety here is alien to me, although I love the music. I feel like I put everything into this except my blood. I finished most of a Beethoven sonata movement and the Chopin Op. 10, No. 4 Etude in the middle of this work because the Schumann was so hard for me.

FWIW, everything you've posted over the last couple of days has been really good - it sounds great to me - so afaict the effort has paid off. Technical blurb about which section could do with more or less whatever, if anything, someone else will have to say though

I've been looping part 1 + the chopin etude over and over until you posted part 2 The subtlety is there, I won't complain if you find time to post some of the wild or very moody in the future

Thanks for posting this.

[gaer]

FWIW, everything you've posted over the last couple of days has been really good - it sounds great to me - so afaict the effort has paid off. Technical blurb about which section could do with more or less whatever, if anything, someone else will have to say though

I've been looping part 1 + the chopin etude over and over until you posted part 2 The subtlety is there, I won't complain if you find time to post some of the wild or very moody in the future

Thanks for posting this.

I'll really appreciate your comments. I can't work in a vacuum. I need to hear other people playing, and I need to get info from other people as I work. Without that it soon seems as though it is all for nothing, if you know what I mean. Most of the things I work the hardest on are probably only for myself, since I seldom have students who are able to tackle things that are either very technically difficult or that require a very sophisticated level of understanding on another level. But you just never know. So running into problems, solving them, thinking about what could be done with everything also may potentially help anyone else at any moment.

Thank you!

Gary

[sonatainfsharp]

I thought they were great--almost TOO great. 

What I mean is, they sound too scholarly--I was wondering how much time you have spent with them? Have you had a chance to make them your own yet? It is always best to approach music with a scholarly attitude, but then give yourself a chance to make them your own, too, but within reasonable limits of the style, etc.

I also wanted to know what you used to record them--the recordings sound better than most CD's I have ever heard!

Fantastic job---I miss having students like you!!!

[gorbee natcase]

Wonderfull 

[gaer]

I thought they were great--almost TOO great. 

What I mean is, they sound too scholarly--I was wondering how much time you have spent with them? Have you had a chance to make them your own yet? It is always best to approach music with a scholarly attitude, but then give yourself a chance to make them your own, too, but within reasonable limits of the style, etc.

Those are hard questions to answer. I certainly thought about all of them a great deal. I probably spent more time thinking about them than playing them, because I've taught a few of them, notated them in my own style, etc. And I certainly did not follow the score "to the letter", because I don't think you can.

For example, "Ritter von Steckpferd" (Knight of the Rocking-horse), the RH is clearly marked eighth rest, quarter, eighth, accented eighth, and that's for the whole piece. To me, following this literally creates a heavy, cloddy sound. By hitting the first two notes (chords, whatever) as both eighths separated by rests, I got the sound I wanted. That's already taking a big liberty.

Then the original markings seem to be mf for the first section, repeated, f for the middle section (which is naturally repeated, second section), and the repeat of the theme or main idea is marked ff. No pedal indicated. So I really changed a great deal. I don't think it can work otherwise.

The greatest problem throughout is the tremendous amount of repeated material, usually marked the same each time. You know you have to do something with it to bring it alive, but deciding what and convincing yourself and those you play for that it is—well, "convincinng"—is the problem.

I also wanted to know what you used to record them--the recordings sound better than most CD's I have ever heard!

I'm going straight from a Clavinova to my computer. The weakness is that for some stupid reason the output from the piano is analogue, so it has to be changed back to digital again. This is, of course, insane, since the chip is producing a digital output. Old piano. I like the sound of the chip (sampling) better than most electrics, but I'm sure you can understand how much I missed having a fine accoustic instrument. The soft pedal (una corda) affects dynamics but has none of the nuances of the real thing, and I REALLY miss that.

Fantastic job---I miss having students like you!!!

I had my last piano lesson in about 1972. I ran out of money after getting a degree in piano performance, started teaching to pay back education loans and pay bills, so here I am. That's why the feedback is so great here. It makes me want to play again. If you have any specific comments about any of the 13 "pieces" that make up this set, I'd like to hear them.

Is something dragging? Too stiff? Underplayed? Missing counter-melodies? Too much pedal, not enough? Any reading mistakes caught?

Thanks for the kinds words!

Gary

[gaer]

FWIW, everything you've posted over the last couple of days has been really good - it sounds great to me - so afaict the effort has paid off. Technical blurb about which section could do with more or less whatever, if anything, someone else will have to say though

I've been looping part 1 + the chopin etude over and over until you posted part 2 The subtlety is there, I won't complain if you find time to post some of the wild or very moody in the future

Thanks for posting this.

I appreciate your thoughts! The Etude Tableau in A minor that I posted is an example of something that feels totally right to me. And the other Etude Tableau there is as wild as anything I've played. Generally I feel closest to Rachmaninov and the larger, dramatic works of Chopin such as the Scherzos (Scherzi) and Ballades.

Gary

[flo]

Hi Gary,
Your recording is wonderful, better than some commercials I've heard.
Compared to you, I'm a very poor pianist, with only 5 years study, but I had the chance to study the Kinderszenen with a master (who by chance accepted beginners like me). He was "the" specialist, teaching them to every student he had since many years.
As I am just returning to the piano after stopping 10 years, I have only a few remarks for you today, because, as you can imagine, it is difficult to give an advice without making a record to make you hear the point. But as I will play them again soon, maybe I'll have more advices.
Anyway :
- In the 3, my teacher told us to play the left hand like this :
https://www.athena2.net/zique/flo/KS3-LH.mp3
With both hands, it would be like this :
https://www.athena2.net/zique/flo/KS3-2Hands.mp3
Please forgive the poor technique. I don't play it at the right tempo, but I'am sure that this "left hand effect" can be kept at full speed.
I have to say your "interrupted legato", right hand, is very good.
- in the 9, on your record, I don't hear the sustained note at the left hand, which is very important. I tried here to give your an idea : 
https://www.athena2.net/zique/flo/KS9-LH.mp3  
- in the 12 : the very first chord (I am french : 3 notes together, is it called a chord ?) at the left hand is not together. Very bad effect. My teacher said always you have to be very careful with the very first notes of a piece. And measures 16-17, nothing is together.
- "Not being together" is something very usual, even with good pianists, so, by caring a little more about this would make a difference, and make you... perfect ? Instead of "very good"...

[berrt]

Gary,
your recordings are really great, i listen to all of them!
once again: your chopin-demonstration of Op 72/1 is extremely helpful.......
er - do you accept requests?

bye
berrt

[violinist]

Hi Gary!

I'm a fan.

I'm not qualified to comment about your playing.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

Congratulations! i'm really impressed with it (i listened to the 1st half).

i think all the technical things have been dealt with properly, but not that it's not musical. it is musical! but somehow, after all the pianistic worries we have had been solved, sometimes we look for something deeper now. i think it needs more atmosphere now, something that will make me look up to the skies in tears, pleading, and say "can i do that too?" - and this is the finishing touch! so again congratulations! so now don't tell me that you've been working on this work for only a week!

what piano did you play on? because i noticed that even if you changed dynamics (good coloring by the way, just right), the color of your tones don't change - this is a big part in making the atmosphere! im guessing ur using a digital piano? the dynamics change clearly BUT somehow i don't find it too intentional because it doesn't change the feeling.

anyways, try to listen to radu lupu's recording. i like that one as well.
are you a professional pianist? how long have u been playing?

[crazy for ivan moravec]

Hi Gary!

first let me clarify what i said above.. the atmosphere im talking about is just the sound of the instrument. i think im looking for the overtones, that's why i guessed that u were playing on a digital piano.. or maybe the recrding equipment? don't know.

wow! i sense some old playing here! do you love listening to the romantic pianists? i admire that kind of playing so much: the rubatos, breathings, etc... i don't even think i have the right to say anything here (after re-reading my reply above).

i just enjoy listening to a work which is so well connected. i seldom hear anyone play a work comprised of small pieces/movements as compact as this. everything is well-thought out.

how do you contain the emotions so well? it is very expressive but there is no hint of it becoming too emotional. that characteristic u have is great personality.. ;-) my hat off to u!

i totaly agree about not following to the "letter". when i listened to Cortot's Carnaval, i thought that the way he made it sound so good was by not following things as written. i think he treats the score as schumann's notebook with all his intentions. so i think that whatever schumann wrote on the score was his special notation in expressing his thoughts.

what do u think of when u play Der Dichter Spricht? i wish i could play like that. somehow i still don't understand schumann, haha, i have a hard time figuring out how to approach that movement. technically, i would have problems dealing with the Carnaval, but musically the kinderscenen is way too difficult for me. but u did it so well that i feel every piece's intensity.

lastly, the way u ended Kind im Einschlummern approaching Der Dichter Spricht was a great moment for me!

btw, i remembered Radu Lupu's recording of this when i heard yours. of course both of u are unique... but the effect of Lupu's on me is of the same level as the effect u had on me.
i look forward to your other recordings. im sure i'll learn a lot, just like from ur kinderscenen.

[gaer]

Hi Gary!

first let me clarify what i said above.. the atmosphere im talking about is just the sound of the instrument. i think im looking for the overtones, that's why i guessed that u were playing on a digital piano.. or maybe the recrding equipment? don't know.

You are absolutely correct. I live in a small condo, and I have absolutely NO privacy. At work, I teach on an electronic keyboard, and most of my students start out with simply 61 key keyboards because their parents do not have the money to invest in a real piano BEFORE they find out if their kids are serious. But the Yamaha I use at work is far superior to most of the accoustic pianos my students are playing on at home, those who have them, which are out of tune, out of regulation, etc. You know what it's like playing on such beasts.

I had a 7 foot Yamaha grand, but it was destroyed in a fire, along with everything else I owned. However—and I have to stress this—if I still had that piano, I would have no place to put it. We don't even have room for it. When you have a family, you have to make some hard, hard choices. At least working on an electronic instrument allows me to play and record, usually well after mignight. And the reason is that I am able to work with earphones, allowing me to work until I drop without bothering anyone.

I've had many years of experience now trying to "beat the best" out of these electronic things, and although they can be quite nice at times, and they are very convenient for recording (since "splicing", or the electronic version of that), is so simple, you are quite right. Tone color is missing. For me, such a piano is at its absolute worst in miniatures. Sometimes it sounds quite good in other kinds of music, but I miss the soft pedal (una corda, which should really be due corde), because it introduces a whole extra set of sounds or colors. The keyboard I use at work, though inferior in sound to what I have at home in most ways (only a P-250, very artificial sounding and TERRIBLE sound in the very upper treble) has a much better feel, and the soft pedal there actually creates a change in sound. It is also programmable, meaning that I can set how "strong" the effect is.

I think that's what you are missing more than anything else when you listen. It's what I miss. The soft pedal on this old Clavinova simply decreases the velocity recorded as the keys strike, and that creates a slight difference in perceived sound, since playing softer, of course, always causes a change in perceived "tone". But it's not enough. So if, for example, you want to repeat a phrase, first very softly with all three strings, then the same phrase with only two, perhaps softer but not necessarily, it's just not there.

The problem? The technology is available to make a much more realistic sounding electronic piano, but it is not being used, and I don't foresee it happneing. Unfortunately.

So there's the story of the piano. That's why I've said that I cuss at the piano. I need the extra "takes" to get things right, because something I could nail in my sleep on a great piano will always screw up somewhere. A note won't sound, another sticks out. It's harder to get the keys to strike at the same time too. Woes of recording.

Thank you for the kind words. As I've said elsewhere, my family just barely survived Wilma in Broward County, and I'm not exactly feeling at the top of the world right now.

All the best,

Gary

[crazy for ivan moravec]

im sorry to hear about Wilma on ur family. i hope for u and ur family all the best!

[applelover]

hey gaer.  the piece is well done, it feels a little mechanical though.  when you switch from phrase to phrase (i think that's the right word), there could be more of a ritard, or the sound could get louder or softer to a stronger degree.  does that make any sense? anyway, well done.

[gaer]

hey gaer.  the piece is well done, it feels a little mechanical though.  when you switch from phrase to phrase (i think that's the right word), there could be more of a ritard, or the sound could get louder or softer to a stronger degree.  does that make any sense? anyway, well done.

You know, it's strange that the reaction to this recording has been less enthusiastic than to anything else I've shared, and I have to be honest and admit that I am far from satisfied myself.

I do agree that some of the pieces sound too mechanical, although I don't yet have any ideas about how to change that.

I do not feel comfortable enough with Schumann to take the small "liberties" that I usually take with music I feel close to. I would not hesitate a second to make rather strong decisions about Debussy, for instance, or Rachmaninov, even in Ravel.

Gaer

[luvslive]

thank you for these recordings, gaer.  they were lovely to listen to and it is nice to have the full set...the keyboard sounds pretty darn good to me, hope you can one day have yourself a real piano because you deserve it. 

[cfortunato]

It's great.  I'll reserve my comments to the four pieces that I play myself:

1) Distant Lands and People.  I love the way you play this, and (thank goodness) it's actually the right speed.  I've heard this played too fast fairly often.  If I'm remembering my copy correctly, you are starting the ritardando sooner than actually called for, but I like it.  Your playing gets more expressive as the piece progresses, and perhaps there should be more expression the first time around.

2) Curious Story.  I love the way you do the grace notes.  The start sounds too choppy to me.  I know it's a staccato piece, but it sounds too staccato.  It also sounds to me like there is actually something actually inaccurate being played at the end of the verses, but I'm not sure what it is.

3) Hasche-mann.  No comment, it's just flat great.   A small technical hesitancy at the beginning, but that might be for  the sake of drama.

4) Traumerei.  This one sounds TOO slow to me.  It's "Daydreaming," not "Sleep."  The expression and dynamics are just beautiful, but just a hair faster would hold the attention more.

Overall, I love the way you played this thing.

[wzkit]

After an absence of almost a decade, I thought I might resurrect this thread to draw attention to some truly musical playing, notwithstanding the limitations from using a Clavinova. I particularly enjoy the pacing in Traumerei - just the right basic tempo and "sighs" to bring out that sense of dreaminess and nostalgia, which I think is very appropriate for this piece.