best technique?

[thracozaag]

Also check out Yundi Li, a possible contender for fastest wrists in the west (east?!). His op10-5 has a zero-rubato finish.

As for cans of whup-ass , Cziffra's grand galop chromatique immediately comes to mind. Followed closely by Andrei Gavrilov's op10-4 (Although i highly highly doubt he'd achieve that kind of clarity in a live performance.)

 Meiting's FF is the fastest, I've ever heard hands-down..and LIVE.  I have a video of Gavrilov playing the big B-flat prelude of Rachmaninoff and it's even BETTER than the recording.  It's something to behold.

[eddie92099]

I far prefer the old Horowitz or Ernst Levy's Liszt sonata.

No no no no no! Well I haven't heard the Ernst Levy so I can't comment on that but I have the old Horowitz and although it is very good, it is not quite Argerich.

with argerich you can tell she is playing as fast as possible on some of her recordings, but with hamelin he always chooses the best tempo for musical clarity. if he busted out his chops and opened a can of whup-ass, he would surely beat argerich in any race. what hamelin can do and what he does are quite different things. but with argerich - what she does is all she can do.

I disagree. While Argerich's speeds are phenomenal at times, it is not (quoting Kissin - I'm sure you have seen this) "virtuosity for the sake of virtuosity". If you have actually seen Argerich in performance you would see that she is not "busting out her chops" to play in this way and I'm sure she could play faster if she wanted to just as much as Hamelin could,
Ed

[eddie92099]

Also, Argerich's range of sonorities and tonal colours is without doubt far superior to anyone else's,
Ed

[comme_le_vent]

I am admitting i havent heard every pianist, but in my mind hamelin has the best technique. i have only heard some argerich recordings, but judging by them - shes amazing, but i dont believe that hamelin couldnt do what she does if he chose to- talking purely technically though. but i do have to say that argerich is far and away the best female pianist ive ever heard - technically and musically.

[chromatickler]

Argerich best female pianist technically? Have you heard Rebecca Penneys' chopin etudes? musically it is completely disgusting but she does give Argerich a run for her money technique wise.

[e60m5]

Emil Gilels.

[eddie92099]

“The moment that technical problems are treated as ends in themselves, the spiritual unity of the whole is destroyed.” (Wilhelm Furtwängler),
Ed

[ahmedito]

That may be so.... but its fun as hell watching Cziffra play the grand galope!!!
All I need is some nachos and a bullhorn and some cheerleaders.

[eddie92099]

That may be so.... but its fun as hell watching Cziffra play the grand galope!!!

You are right,
Ed

[thracozaag]

Also, Argerich's range of sonorities and tonal colours is without doubt far superior to anyone else's,
Ed

 wow, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on THIS one.

[eddie92099]

Then you are a fool,
Ed

[thracozaag]

Then you are a fool,
Ed

[bop...boo]

i don't find Argerich that appealing.  frankly i think everybody is schooled in velocity by cziffra.  the man is a monster just listen to his chopin etudes.  and his tonal colors are incredible and for proof listen to his greig concerto.  i have never heard more of a floating sound.  anyways i would have to vote him for best technique...or rachmaninoff.  like horowitz said technique is not mere mechanics it is the range of sounds you can extract from the keyboard.

[eddie92099]

like horowitz said technique is not mere mechanics it is the range of sounds you can extract from the keyboard.

Which is why Argerich rules,
Ed

[erik-]

I agree with eddie92099 concerning Martha Argerich. I really don't think she plays fast just for the sake of virtuosity or to impress the audience.
For having seen her in concert playing those difficult pieces like rachmaninov's suites for 2 pianos, I was of course impressed by her speed but mainly by the rich "range of sonorities and tonal colours" (quoting eddie92099) she managed to achieved. I think that many pianists nowadays have amazing technique, it may actually be a basic requirement. But rare are those who can play fast and at the same time achieve the variety of colors she can.
What I like also in her playing is that she doesn't make exagerated gestures. She looks very natural when she plays, and even in the most difficult passages, it really seems easy to her.
During that concert where she was performing the rachmaninov's suite for 2 pianos with Michel Beroff, it was amazing the difference between the 2 pianists. Michel Berof was making very brutal gestures in order to play that music, something it was annoying becase he slapped his feet on the floor making noise etc. whilst argerich's playing seemed effortless.

[e60m5]

I sense an abundance of Argerich fanboys.

[allchopin]

Can't we all agree that all of those past pianists from Liszt all the way to Rachmaninoff are all amazing and god-like (or goddess-like) and are all invincible.  They almost cannot be improved upon.  I say once you can play the same way upside-down and backwards, then you have attained full techincal proficiency.  There's no use in trying to compare these people- can't we try something new, like blindfolded performances or playing etudes while reciting insignificant decimal enumerations of pi?  Now there is something that I would love to watch in concert rather than watch someone try to match tecniques that have already been had hundreds of years ago.
I think I'll go work up a backwards sonata for all of you nonconformists.

[debussy_lover]

There's no use in trying to compare these people- can't we try something new, like blindfolded performances or playing etudes while reciting insignificant decimal enumerations of pi?  Now there is something that I would love to watch in concert rather than watch someone try to match tecniques that have already been had hundreds of years ago.

Well said allchopin - I couldn't agree more.  The race to play "the fastest ever" bores me no end.  Maybe we should have a new thread to compensate: Best Interpreters.  My nominations for that category:

Gould
Horowitz
Busoni

[eddie92099]

Can't we all agree that all of those past pianists from Liszt all the way to Rachmaninoff are all amazing and god-like (or goddess-like) and are all invincible.  They almost cannot be improved upon.  I say once you can play the same way upside-down and backwards, then you have attained full techincal proficiency.  There's no use in trying to compare these people- can't we try something new, like blindfolded performances or playing etudes while reciting insignificant decimal enumerations of pi?  Now there is something that I would love to watch in concert rather than watch someone try to match tecniques that have already been had hundreds of years ago.
I think I'll go work up a backwards sonata for all of you nonconformists.

You're the one who started the thread about how fast we can all scale chromatically Mr Anti-technique,
Ed

[JohnOgdon]

Then you, sir, are deaf as well as stupid and are thoroughly lacking in a soul. I have never met anyone, whatever school of pianism they may be from, who will dismiss Cortot outright. Another nail in your coffin; you say you wish to talk with other serious musicians, yet with remarks like this absolutely no-one is going to take you seriously. To re-iterate, Cortot's playing is fantastic, so go and clean our ears or drown yourself in the nearest river.

[JohnOgdon]

Apology: typo. Those who respect Cortot's playing already have clean ears, I intended to direct you to go and flush your inner canal with Hydrochloric acid and maybe you will hear a little differently.............

[trunks]

You are very lucky to have seen him! What was he playing and where? I saw him do a recital in Hong Kong a few years back and I've met him recently after seeing him conduct  

Hey Eddie,

So you've been to Hong Kong, my homeland! What inspired you to come over here?

By the way I've been doing my undergraduate studies in your homeland Britian, Leeds to be precise . . .

[trunks]

And oh, Lang Lang, the cute-looking young Chinese chap, has phenomenal technique. Way better than Yundi Li, in my opinion. Some sharpening-up of his musicality and he would easily become one of the world's best.

[thracozaag]

And oh, Lang Lang, the cute-looking young Chinese chap, has phenomenal technique. Way better than Yundi Li, in my opinion. Some sharpening-up of his musicality and he would easily become one of the world's best.

nc

[rainmaker]

 listen to me dear friend. the best technique is this one: the best technique!
 don't say it, cause i know what u're going to say. what am i talking about? am i insane? maybe! but i trully believe that the best techinque is our bset technique. which one is that? there's only you who knows.

[JeffL]

I am surprised that, in all these contributions, nobody has mentioned Dinu Lipatti. I heard his recording of the Grieg Concerto recently and found it quite stunning - it was like hearing the piece for the first time.
Other masterly pianists who have not been mentioned so far - Michelangeli and Solomon. None of these pianists were great showmen, but, make no mistake, each possessed a fabulous technique completely at the service of the music.

[chromatickler]

A belated reply:

VADIM RUDENKO  

[thracozaag]

A belated reply:

VADIM RUDENKO  

10/2 in a minute=respect.

koji (STSD)

[Rob47]

For best technique I'd have to say, Horowitz, Cziffra, Hamelin, myself, Busoni and Gilels.

And why do people praise Argerich for Hungarian Rhapsody 6? Don't get me wrong she's one of the greats but Cziffra owns no. 6. As well as 17 others. But like I've  posted before, Horowitz Rhapsody 19 is incredible. He owns that one.

[DarkWind]

You are very lucky to have seen him! What was he playing and where? I saw him do a recital in Hong Kong a few years back and I've met him recently after seeing him conduct  

Hey Eddie,

So you've been to Hong Kong, my homeland! What inspired you to come over here?

By the way I've been doing my undergraduate studies in your homeland Britian, Leeds to be precise . . .

Why'd you bump such an old topic? Are you luda incarnated?


Also, Argerich is amazing (learning Gaspard de la Nuit in 5 days is pretty good in my book) and Hamelin for being able to play just about anything.

[stefano]

Listen to  Arcadi Volodos, wow. hes amazing.  its unreal what he does. Hamelin, zimmerman, Kissin, and Gutierrez are also my favorite.

 Horowitz did horrible things with a lot of pieces, i personally dont enjoy that much of his stuff. but its only an opinion.

[Floristan]

I'd have to vote for Hamelin for pure technique; fortunately it's combined with a definite musicality.  Still, at this point, his technique dominates his playing, rather than serving his art.  I qualify this by saying I've only listened to the three Alkan recordings and the Godowsky-Chopin etudes, so perhaps I just haven't sampled enough Hamelin yet.

Argerich has abundant technique, and yes, I'm an admitted Argerich "fanboy," but, I think, not without reason.  I understand that her rhapsodic style doesn't appeal to some, but for my personal taste, no on beats her for technique combined with the ability to produced the most amazing nuance, tonal color, and sonority.   Her technique always serves her vision.  That not everyone likes her vision, I understand.

Cortot was an amazing pianist.  True, technique isn't the first thing I think of with Cortot, though I think he had plenty.  Cortot produced consistently beautiful tone like few others have done -- maybe Kapell in his short career, and often Rubenstein -- but this is another discussion!

[brewtality]

da doctah ownz all as far as technique is concerned. 
Horowitz's tonal colouring, sonorities etc are superior to Argerich imo.

[m]

For best technique I'd have to say, Horowitz, Cziffra, Hamelin, myself, Busoni and Gilels.

And why do people praise Argerich for Hungarian Rhapsody 6? Don't get me wrong she's one of the greats but Cziffra owns no. 6. As well as 17 others.

If somebody heard Grigory Ginzburg's 6th Rhapsody... well... first listen and then we will talk.

Technique has many aspects. If one thinks about technique as ability to play as fast and as clean as it is humanly possible, then there are too many names to list, plus even more names we never heard of. Kinda car races--who came first without accident, wins.
As one of my professors (he had quite shocking personality) told to one of his students, who wanted to play Brahms-Paganini as fast as it is possible--"Baby... why?... remember.... always you can find a fool who can play it faster".

F. Chopin and F. Liszt used to talk about technique as an "art of sound". If one thinks about technique as a tool for self-expression and as a tool to serve something that IMHO opinion is much higher than "car races"--MUSIC, then the situation is quite different. I definitely would not put many of listed above names here, but a few names come to my mind right away--S. Rachmaninov, S. Richter, E. Gilels, G. Gould, V. Horowits... And I don't care how many wrong notes they played. In fact, wrong notes can be a good indicator here--humans are not computers. I hate computers... at least in music.

[trewy]

Gyorgy Czifra

[Sark1]

Im surprised no one mentioned Michelangeli.  But anyway, i really dont think it matters.  Technique has never surprised me much.  Technique is only a tool to produce music.

[legend]

Marc-andre Hamelin has the best piano technique ever. This is an opinion based on my own listening, and knowledge gained from other people who have heard most pianists who have ever been recorded. What he does with this gift isnt always to alot of peoples taste, but its clear in my mind he's the best technician there is.

no wrong notes?
hamelin is always note perfect and never sounds like he might hit a wrong one

fastest fingers in the west?
I have heard other pianists play close to his speed, but never with the same control and accuracy

tonal control?
hamelin has the most amazing control over tone i have ever heard, his playing is so even and smooth, he can do pretty much anything he wants.

stamina?
listen to his recording of alkans concerto for solo piano, 50 minutes worth of insane technical demands played perfectly and with power in reserve, or listen to his busoni piano concerto, over 70 mins, but with orchestra.

all of the above?
yes indeed absolutely, totally.

listen to his godowsky/chopin etudes and read the score along with it.....

i have to agree completely with this guy

he seems to know his stuff!!!!!!!

[super_ardua]

Hamelin's technique makes the brain twist

[legend]

he is phenomenal

there are some that i think are gifted with near or equal natural dexterity

but hamelin combines that with a VERY economical technique and complete musical control/command

[BoliverAllmon]

Marc-andre Hamelin has the best piano technique ever. This is an opinion based on my own listening, and knowledge gained from other people who have heard most pianists who have ever been recorded. What he does with this gift isnt always to alot of peoples taste, but its clear in my mind he's the best technician there is.

no wrong notes?
hamelin is always note perfect and never sounds like he might hit a wrong one

fastest fingers in the west?
I have heard other pianists play close to his speed, but never with the same control and accuracy

tonal control?
hamelin has the most amazing control over tone i have ever heard, his playing is so even and smooth, he can do pretty much anything he wants.

stamina?
listen to his recording of alkans concerto for solo piano, 50 minutes worth of insane technical demands played perfectly and with power in reserve, or listen to his busoni piano concerto, over 70 mins, but with orchestra.

all of the above?
yes indeed absolutely, totally.

listen to his godowsky/chopin etudes and read the score along with it.....

i have to agree completely with this guy

he seems to know his stuff!!!!!!!

hahahaha insane man insane.

[legend]

sorry, i dont understand what you mean

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I don't really like Horrowitz at all.

I do, however, enjoy Ashkenazy. I like Arrau too.

[chromatickler]

as long as his thumb & index r functional, then da RUDY haz da best right hand evah. 

[legend]

highly - one could even say mass - debatable

[BoliverAllmon]

agreeing with oneself is what I found truly insane man.

[krenske]

mine

[flash]

Have you ever heard Evgeny Koroliov?

[Alde]

I think Hamelin has a phenomenal piano technique.  He actually plays the Chopin/Godowsky etudes and piano music by Alkan.

[chromatickler]

DA LIIIIIIIIIB

 

[hodi]

i think that c.zimerman has a superb technique..