best technique?

[jeff]

Who would you say has/had the best technique out of pianists of whom there have been recordings?

for me, ashkenazy comes to mind.. i like the evenness and cleaness and control in his playing (i saw him live in concert the other night ;D;D)

[eddie92099]

You are very lucky to have seen him! What was he playing and where? I saw him do a recital in Hong Kong a few years back and I've met him recently after seeing him conduct  .

Very interesting topic as well - names that spring to mind are Gyorgy Cziffra, Josef Lhevinne, Vladimir Horowitz, Maurizio Pollini and Martha Argerich,
Ed

[jeff]

>>"I've met him recently after seeing him conduct"
 you lucky s.o.b!!  

i saw him down here in Australia. he did a mozart concerto and mahler's symphony no.2

hm... i guess i should contribute something more to the topic to keep it going
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that - perhaps moreso in his later years - horowitz's technique was a bit rough sometimes?

[eddie92099]

Well he was always one for wrong notes. I cannot remember which pianist it was who said it, but the saying was:

"I would rather have Horowitz's wrong notes than my right ones".

I know Ashkenazy very rarely plays much outside of Mozart now - such a shame about his arthritis. I saw him a few years back playing Beethoven and Chopin  
Ed

[jeff]

"I would rather have Horowitz's wrong notes than my right ones"

yeah, i think i've heard that quote before somewhere, and i totally agree. a "messy" technique never really bothers me, as long as there's enough musicality to compensate for what they lack in technique, and as long as the music itself can still be heard well enough (the reason it doesn't bother me might be because i have a fairly rough technique compared to other pianists of my age/level of musicality).
I also like a certain roughness in visual arts, and often like the look of sketches more than finely polished drawings/paintings. maybe that relates somehow.
(hm. went slightly off the topic there, in more ways than one)

Argerich is another one i automatically associate with 'great technique'.


Ashkenazy has arthritis? aw.  :-/

[eddie92099]

Yes, luckily he can still conduct though. I agree with you completely with the "messy technique" attitude - I wonder, are you a fan of Shura Cherkassky?
Ed
(p.s. Argerich is my favourite of all - and I so nearly met her but that's another story)

[Hmoll]

Richter probably has to be mentioned.

Also, of the "younger" pianists, I would say Hamelin has a great technique.

You did not go to  hear Horowitz in order to hear a note perfect performance. You went to experience the sound that he could get out of the piano, and to have your hair standing on end for a good while after the recital. When I heard Horowitz play, he began with a set of Scarlatti, then Beethoven op. 101, the second half was all Chopin - some mazurkas, a nocturne, Polonaise, Scherzo #1, and Ballade #4. There were a few wrong notes in his unbelievable performance of the Chopin. The Scarlatti was very clean, and the op. 101 was as well.

[eddie92099]

Yes I have heard that from people that have seen Horowitz live. I have seen many great pianists - Ashkenazy, Brendel, Barenboim, Kissin etc. but I don't think I have experienced that really rare (once in a generation) something yet.
I'm off to see Argerich play Prokofiev 3 soon though  
That will be quite something, has anyone here seen her live?
Ed

[Noah]

Best technique... Cziffra and Argerich I think
Argerich is definitely my favourite pianist as well
I've been trying to see her live for ages, but everytime something prevents it to happen  
Ed, are you going to see her in February at the Royal Festival Hall ? I haven't got my ticket yet, as soon as I get back to London, I'll go and buy one, hopefully there's some left...

[thracozaag]

Who would you say has/had the best technique out of pianists of whom there have been recordings?

Old timers:

Kapell
Horowitz
Cziffra
Barere
Lhevinne
Friedman
Bolet
Rubinstein (listen to his EMI stuff from the 40's)
Janis
Cherkassky
Cortot (listen to his Saint Saens etude in the form of a Waltz--even Horowitz was blown away by this)
Gilels
Ogdon
Moiseiwitsch

Some recent freaks:
Libetta
Volodos
Hamelin
and....Mei-ting DA TORMENTOR!!!

[meiting]

rofl. dude.

[eddie92099]

Yep Noah - I haven't got my ticket yet either. Need to sort that one out soon. Did you have tickets for her Beethoven's first last February? I went but she cancelled  ,
Ed

[Noah]

Yeah she keeps canceling! She plays a bit here in Brussels though, cuz she lives here. My mom went to see her with Mischa Maisky playing Shostakovich and Prokofiev's cello sonatas among other pieces (it was a public recording session for Deutsche Grammophon), just one day after I left And she's playing Ravel's concerto in G and Beethoven first here in December just one week before I come back

[eddie92099]

Forget studying, we should go over and see her  ,
Ed

[erik-]

Martha Argerich has the most spectacular technique. Everything seems so easy to her and it looks like she really enjoys playing the most difficult pieces. She's so comfortable and her exceptional musicality make it look like she improvises.

I went to listen to her in Paris playing a Rachmaninov's suite for 2 piano with Michel Berof a few months ago. Are you saying she's going to play in February 2004 in London ? I couldn't find that concert. But I bought tickets for her concert in March 2004 at the Royal Festival Hall. She will be playing Prokofiev's 3rd piano concerto I'm really impatent now

[eddie92099]

I meant March - sorry  
Guess I'll see you there!
Ed

[ahmedito]

Well... Glen Gould has cybernetic hands. But what about Schifra? OUCH


At the beggining of this thread I saw some stuff about ashkenazhy. Id just like to say I am the luckiest guy here. He has his summer house in St Lucia (but he seldom goes tere now) and one summer I was doing a gig teaching at a very small school there. then I Realized he was there. He played a small recital, talked to us about musical issues (and some extramusical) and acutally heard some of us play and favored us with some personal opinions. He he one COOL person and a good human being and I am thankful for the opportunity of having met him. And his tips and insights changed the way I play forever.

[sram]

i find Pollini to have the most flawless technique...
not my favorite interpreter though.
as a critic said: "Pollini is playing...bring your blankets..."
still, no one has done Bartok 2nd like him.

I guess we can come with long lists of high technique pianists...it's almost a given nowadays.

[eddie92099]

Yes, I agree with the Pollini comment. However, when faced with repertoire such as Stravinsky's Petroushka, he is untouchable,
Ed

[thracozaag]

[ find Pollini to have the most flawless technique...


Not when he did the Beethoven cycle in nyc a while back....

[tph]

Yes, I agree with the Pollini comment. However, when faced with repertoire such as Stravinsky's Petroushka, he is untouchable

Has anyone heard Yakov Kasman's or Alexander Tselyakov's Petroushka (Kasman does a very impressive "Pictures" also)?

From what I've heard in recordings, in terms of colour range and facility, Berezovsky, Pogorelich, or Pletnev fair well alongside with the other modern pianists mentioned earlier.

tph

[thracozaag]

Has anyone heard Yakov Kasman's or Alexander Tselyakov's Petroushka (Kasman does a very impressive "Pictures" also)?

From what I've heard in recordings, in terms of colour range and facility, Berezovsky, Pogorelich, or Pletnev fair well alongside with the other modern pianists mentioned earlier.


 Kasman's Rach 1st Sonata is the best I've ever heard.  

[chromatickler]

Chopin etudes are very good means of comparing technique. Of those that made recordings of the complete set, Gavrilov, Cziffra, Browning, Zayas (& maybe Penneys?) stand out as having the best technique.

ps. Horowitz most definately did NOT have the best technique.

[thracozaag]

Chopin etudes are very good means of comparing technique. Of those that made recordings of the complete set, Gavrilov, Cziffra, Browning, Zayas (& maybe Penneys?) stand out as having the best technique.

ps. Horowitz most definately did NOT have the best technique.

 My favorite complete set to listen to is still Cortot's.  

[eddie92099]

I have nothing but praise for Berezovsky,
Ed

[Hmoll]

Click on this link for the right answer.

https://www.liberace.com/liberace/images/postcard5-1.jpg

Just kidding, someone did this in another forum.
Brendel (not pictured) should probably be mentioned too. Whether you like his playing or not - I do - his technique is up there.

[eddie92099]

Gilels for glissandi...
Ed

[thracozaag]

Click on this link for the right answer.

https://www.liberace.com/liberace/images/postcard5-1.jpg

Just kidding, someone did this in another forum.
Brendel (not pictured) should probably be mentioned too. Whether you like his playing or not - I do - his technique is up there.

 Along with his JLO/Lang-Lang quote, Earl Wild's comment on the "Brendelization" of the piano world was most amusing.

[tph]

For Chopin Etudes, I think Pollini and Ashkenazy rank right at the top.

Gilels for glissandi...

Has anyone heard Grigory Ginzburg's glissandi (in a Liszt Hungarain Rhapsody)?

tph

[sram]

haha.. this is turning about one's own favorite pianists thread.

it's hard to generalize over who has the "best" technique as we haven't first established what we mean by that.

no wrong notes?
fastest fingers in the west?
tonal control?
stamina?
all of the above?

...none of the above? :p

[la_carrenio2003]

Emil Gilels, absolutely

[chromatickler]

For fastest fingers in the west, one candidate would be Sergio Fiorentino. You can listen to his recordings on mp3.com. It's obvious he had a very small hand, as his technique sounds similar to Hoffman (fast notes/slow octaves). But he also had a great chord technique. Listen to his Etude Tableaux op39-6 (live, no edits). It's a shame he's not more well known.

[eddie92099]

Art Tatum,
Ed

[JohnOgdon]

Ed,
Thank god, people realise that he has some of the most amazing equipment that has ever graced the piano. Ogdon, Horowitz and Cziffra are also in line for the most insane technique crown. I think someone like libetta hits the notes well, bu that is about it. Someone like cortot can create amazing effects on the piano, better than many more immaculate virtuosos.

[davy10tunes]

I glad you mentioned Art Tatum.Have you heard him play his own composition "Elegie"? That left hand stride is absolutely stuning! Also, if anyone is interested in Tatum they should get the book "The Right Hand According to Tatum" it shows you how he put together his "licks" and gives you some of his own transcriptions, so if you fancy a challenge you should check it out.

David

[eddie92099]

Tatum was Rachmaninov's favourite pianist too!
Ed

[thracozaag]

Tatum was Rachmaninov's favourite pianist too!
Ed

 Horowitz LOVED Tatum, as well.

[comme_le_vent]

Marc-andre Hamelin has the best piano technique ever. This is an opinion based on my own listening, and knowledge gained from other people who have heard most pianists who have ever been recorded. What he does with this gift isnt always to alot of peoples taste, but its clear in my mind he's the best technician there is.

no wrong notes?
hamelin is always note perfect and never sounds like he might hit a wrong one

fastest fingers in the west?
I have heard other pianists play close to his speed, but never with the same control and accuracy

tonal control?
hamelin has the most amazing control over tone i have ever heard, his playing is so even and smooth, he can do pretty much anything he wants.

stamina?
listen to his recording of alkans concerto for solo piano, 50 minutes worth of insane technical demands played perfectly and with power in reserve, or listen to his busoni piano concerto, over 70 mins, but with orchestra.

all of the above?
yes indeed absolutely, totally.

listen to his godowsky/chopin etudes and read the score along with it.....

[comme_le_vent]

feel free to try and prove me wrong

[eddie92099]

Argerich,
Ed

[comme_le_vent]

give me some reasons ed

[thracozaag]

 First off, I think Marc-Andre is an astounding pianist and a hell of a nice guy.  His recordings of Godowsky, Alkan and Reger are absolutely amazing.  
 That being said, he DOES make the occasional mistake.  I remember hearing a phenomenal Scriabin 1st sonata of his, that he actually screwed up on the first page
 But rather than detracting from his excellence, it cause me great relief to actually find out he was "human".
 And no, Argerich does not compare to Marc-Andre in terms of technique.  

[eddie92099]

 And no, Argerich does not compare to Marc-Andre in terms of technique.  

For pure velocity, Argerich is the fastest ever recorded in a number of pieces (e.g. Chopin Prelude no.16, Chopin Etude op.10 no.1, Prokofiev's 7th sonata 3rd movement, Prokofiev Toccata...the list continues). Add to that her extraordinary octave technique (e.g. Liszt's 6th Hungarian Rhapsody). Then remember that all she plays is fantastic, in so many different styles (ranging from Bach to Bartok). And most importantly - it is all thoroughly musical and extremely exciting playing too!
Ed

[comme_le_vent]

hamelin has never recorded those pieces, he plays lesser known works, and i respect him all the more for it. if he did play them im sure he could play them as fast or faster.

[thracozaag]

 Cziffra's 10 #1 is faster than Argerich's, and Arrau's is far more articulate.  And live performances of Cziffra's 6th Rhapsody are faster.  Argerich can play VERY VERY fast indeed, but it's light and fakey compared to Cziffra, Horowitz, etc.  
 That being said, I do think her Chopin 2nd sonata (on DG) is terrific, really first rate.

[eddie92099]

Light? Fakey? I completely disagree...
If you want to see why she is the greatest pianist all you have to do is listen to her Liszt B minor sonata,
Ed

[thracozaag]

 I far prefer the old Horowitz or Ernst Levy's Liszt sonata.

[tph]

Talking about clocked Chopin performances, who performs Chopin's 10/5 or 10/7 faster than Ignaz Friedman?  His 10/5, running at 1'28" (of actual playing time and not track marking) is at least 4 seconds faster than any other recording I know, and that's with huge rubato near the end.  And how about Gavrilov's 25/11, or Dang Thai Son's 25/4?

Anyone know how fast Kissin pulls off Feux Follets?

(I know this is know measure of genuine technique in the broadest sense of the word, but it's still fun to compare stats like these on occasion.)

tph

[comme_le_vent]

friedman is one of the most amazing pianists ive hear, he equals horowitz in finger technique, but i havent heard his octave technique so much. with argerich you can tell she is playing as fast as possible on some of her recordings, but with hamelin he always chooses the best tempo for musical clarity. if he busted out his chops and opened a can of whup-ass, he would surely beat argerich in any race. what hamelin can do and what he does are quite different things. but with argerich - what she does is all she can do.

[chromatickler]

Also check out Yundi Li, a possible contender for fastest wrists in the west (east?!). His op10-5 has a zero-rubato finish.

As for cans of whup-ass , Cziffra's grand galop chromatique immediately comes to mind. Followed closely by Andrei Gavrilov's op10-4 (Although i highly highly doubt he'd achieve that kind of clarity in a live performance.)