Liszt Totentanz, Alkan concerto first movement.
chopin raindrop prelude...yep
There are so many including Chopin's nocturne 32 1,liebestraume
I would also nominate Flynn's Trinity, Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum, Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, and anything by Ornstein.
Wagner-Liszt Isolda's Liebestod
Frankly, I'm amazed that it's taken this long for someone to nominate OC here! Anyway, how's about Xenakis's Eonta?...Best,Alistair
The OC is to music what Derrida is to philosophy: it may be unfathomably deep, but quite frankly, I can't give a *** about something that's 5 hours long that's not Lord of the Rings.
Eonta is chopsticks compared to Synaphai, Pithroprakta, Erikhthon, Keqrops, and Persepolis[GRM Remix]
You fail alistair. You fail at life.
grrr...I was going to say you should listen to Mahler but you don't like Romantic. Therefore, watch Lawrence of Arabia.p.s. I love xenakis, is it Tract that is supposed to be THE hardest piece ever written? If so, what is Trinity?
(is this piece minimalistic in some respects, pita?)
Ian Pace's Opinion on the Matter (who is certainly more of a source than Powell):Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4Finnissy English Country-TunesFinnissy all.fall.down.Xenakis EvryaliXenakis Synaphai (Piano Concerto)Xenakis EontaBarrett TractZimmermann WusterwanderungBarlow Cogluotobusisletmesi (not even Pace himself plays this)Globokar Notes (Pace finds this piece scary)Hoban "When the Panting STARTS"
He lists those as the "transcendentally difficult" pieces in a correspondence I had with him, putting the Barlow and Barrett at the top of the most difficult "conceiveably playable" pieces, saying that Xenakis Evryali, Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4 and especially the Xenakis Synaphai are so insanely difficult it becomes a philosophical question as to whether or not they can even be "played."
If you were to ask me what the most difficult piece is I'd tell you the Fox "Brutal" Sonata, a piece I've only recently come in contact with. Before that I would have said Xenakis Synaphai and Evryali, Barrett Tract and Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 6 as opposed to No. 4.
Alistair, I don't know what you mean by saying Xenakis "was not especially concerned that his performers always and only ever play precisely the notes he wrote". I mean I know what you're saying; this is my way of pointing out that your little comment is BS.
And please? The Dillon? If we're dealing with the New Complexity Ferneyhough is obviously the bad boy.
"I am not suggesting otherwise; the point here, however, is that what I wrote was intended to be taken less than seriously"This is the point you're making when you say sarcastically that Eonta is a sweet piece?
Then you go off on some HUGE tangent that has nothing to do with anything. I stopped reading it once I saw your comment about how Xenakis feels his works should be performed; since that's BS I assumed the rest was and didn't feel like wasting my time with it ^^
Now what's this about the Verdi Transcriptions? This is certainly not a contender for the most difficult piece; neither is your "anonymous" 4.5 hour piece AKA Opus Clavicembalisticum.
Also, always take what I say to be taken less than seriously sweetheart.
PS- do you have a bigboy crush on either Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji and/or Jonathan Powell, and if so is it reciprocated?
ahhhh EXCELLENT choice
So snuggums, when you say that when you list pieces as being particularly difficult, you do not have any actual experience in such works and can only mimic what other nameless sources have told you are difficult?
Might I inquire as to who any of these sources may be beyond Jonathan Powell,?
and what makes you insinuate, but not actually outright say, because you never say anything outright or even coherently,
that your precious Sorabji virtuoso is a better reference on the subject of what is and isn't difficult?
Also, might I ask you what sort of personal experience you have in the subject matter? Because if you say none I hope you'll be able to understand that I would have to take any of your blind claims with a grain of salt. And please do not make the assumption that I also have no experience in these types of works, as such an assumption would be incorrect, as convenient as it would be for you.
Now concerning your completely wrong statement about Xenakis.
May I ask if one of the people you refer to knowing personally is a Mr. Hill?
If you did your homework and read the Harmonoligia Series he published, you could have avoided making yourself looking like an idiot ^^ I quote from Xenakis directly:"Chance. . .can be constructed up to a point and with great difficulty, by means of complex reasoning which is summarized in mathematical formulae; it can be constructed a little, but never improvised or intellectually imitated."I hope this shows you how wrong you are.
But what do I know,
Please, tell me what musicians you are referring to when they say that it is ok to cut notes in Xenakis compositions. I'd like to know ^^
And as a topic of curiosity, I wanted to know if you were aware of the fact that nobody in the world speaks like you, and that half of the things you say nobody would be able to understand. Maybe that's why everyone dislikes you?
"I am not about to argue with it, either; I am also not, however, about to elevate the subject of such difficulty above the point at which is has any real existence.""I didn't and don't say that it is or is not anything of the sort, for, as I pointed out before, what I wrote was merely intended to be taken less than seriously rather than as the sarcasm which you have sought to find in it."Are you aware that you sound like a rambling schitzofrenic when you speak?
And regarding your comment about Sorabji not being able to reciprocate your love for him, you should not assume that we don't think you're a necrophiliac. And good job on ducking the question about Jonathan Powell ^^ Do you hug a pillow at night and pretend it's him?
If by merely quoting - as I did - examples of what others have cited as "difficult pieces" I make it impossible for you to do other than extrapolate from such statements that I have no actual experience in such works and can only "mimic", then so be it; please understand, however, that this is your conclusion and not mine.You "might" - and, one may suppose, you "have", here - but that does not confer upon me any obligation to answer your enquiry, whose relevance to anything that might actually matter is not exactly enhanced by your false assumption that I have quoted Jonathan Powell as a source of such views - something that I plainly did not do.In your personal view...Firstly, I did not say that Mr Powell is as you describe him here - these are your own words; I would add that my view of him as a Sorabji performer is hardly mine alone. Secondly, I made no comparative judgement as to the value to anyone of Mr Powell's views on what is and isn't difficult. For someone who, by his/her own admission, hasn't read all that I wrote, you are certainly very forthright in your dogmatic interpretations of what you have and have not read.You may. I would not "say none". The quantity of salt or any other substance with which you may or may not choose to take claims, blind or otherwise, that I have not even made is, of course, entirely up to you. I have made no assumption about your experience in any types of work, since I have never professed to be qualified to do so; there would accordingly be no "convenience" to me one way or the other.In your personal view...You may. It is not so. I did not even say that the performers to whom I refer were pianists in any case, although the fact that they are not - as is the case - does not weaken the case as to what they state that Xenakis said to them at rehearsals; only their being outright liars could do that (and, as you have already observed, I dodn't - in your personal view - do "outright").Why should I make myself look like an idiot when others can makes themselves look like idiots far more effectively than I could? Your citation of Xenakis, whilst obviously valid, is in writing and does not appear as obviously to cover what he might have felt impelled to say to any particular performer in the heat of the moment at a rehearsal. "This" therefore doesn't appear to "show" anything much at all.Apart from what you've so far told us, I have no idea - although I have little doubt that you will continue to enlighten us on that subject.Yes, I'm quite sure you would, but just one reason why I refrain from satisfying you with an answer is that, once again, you have the question wrong; I made no reference to what any other performers may or may not have thought about what was or was not legitimate to do in performance of a Xenakis score, but quoted what they had said that Xenakis had said to them, which is in itself quite a different matter.Have you heard me actually "speak"? Even if you had done so, would that alone qualify you to be able to say, unequivocally and beyond all doubt, that no one else does so as I do? How do you arrive at the word "half" in the context of what I "say"? Should I be flattered that, by implication at least, you think that somebody, everybody or any number of people in between therefore understands the other "half"? How privileged a position you must occupy! - in the sense that it apparently enables you to know absolutely "everybody" and thereby to be able to quote their views on their dislikes of anything and anyone!In a word - no (I hope that this is not too difficult a concept for you or "everybody" else to grasp, for its sheer simplicity is such that even Mr Barrett has felt disposed to use it as the title of one of his works, as of course you already know). You cite three statements here. In the first, I wrote that I am not arguing for or against Mr Pace's view on the difficulties of certain pieces. In the second, I argued that the perceived difficulty or otherwise of any given work should not be accorded undue importance - I should perhaps have clarified my reasoning by adding "except in cases where the composer's principal intent was to create difficulty for its own sake" (although doubtless you would then have found it "convenient" to assume - albeit quite wrongly - that I seek to attribute such an intent to some of the composers mentioned - which I do not). In the third, I noted that there is a difference between writing something that is not intended to be taken too seriously and writing intended sarcasm. I see no incompatibility between these statements, but then I would appear not to have your level of perception. By the way, the long word you use here has no "t" and its "f" should be "ph" in customary English English.Who is this "we" of whom you write? I didn't take your statement about Mr Sorabji or your question about Mr Powell seriously enough to assume that it warranted - or that you even sought - answers, so I didn't even bother to duck the latter as there seemed to be little or nothing to duck. I might ask you if you hug a pillow at night and pretend that it's Mr Xenakis or Mr Pace, but that would of course be another rhetorical question not to be taken any more seriously than I took yours - to say nothing of the fact that answering either of these puerile questions seriously - or indeed even at all - would be grossly insulting to Messrs Sorabji, Powell, Xenakis and Pace.Enough!Best,Alistair
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHASPARINGLY MUFF
I hereby make this the 2nd greatest post in the history of the piano forum! For its sheer amount of ingeniousness and pleasent amount of pure logic.
and you hereby proclaim this to be the no1?
Thank you very much!Best,Alistair
Oh dear, look at what I've started...
i disagree, that piece is pretty, beautiful, but not sweet.the piece is about dying after randomly ejaculating!you expect sugar-coated semen?
If you eat a lot of oranges, yes.
If by merely quoting - as I did - examples of what others have cited as "difficult pieces" I make it impossible for you to do other than extrapolate from such statements that I have no actual experience in such works and can only "mimic", then so be it; please understand, however, that this is your conclusion and not mine.
You "might" - and, one may suppose, you "have", here - but that does not confer upon me any obligation to answer your enquiry, whose relevance to anything that might actually matter is not exactly enhanced by your false assumption that I have quoted Jonathan Powell as a source of such views - something that I plainly did not do.
For someone who, by his/her own admission, hasn't read all that I wrote, you are certainly very forthright in your dogmatic interpretations of what you have and have not read.
You may. It is not so. I did not even say that the performers to whom I refer were pianists in any case, although the fact that they are not - as is the case - does not weaken the case as to what they state that Xenakis said to them at rehearsals; only their being outright liars could do that (and, as you have already observed, I dodn't - in your personal view - do "outright").
Have you heard me actually "speak"? Even if you had done so, would that alone qualify you to be able to say, unequivocally and beyond all doubt, that no one else does so as I do? How do you arrive at the word "half" in the context of what I "say"? Should I be flattered that, by implication at least, you think that somebody, everybody or any number of people in between therefore understands the other "half"? How privileged a position you must occupy! - in the sense that it apparently enables you to know absolutely "everybody" and thereby to be able to quote their views on their dislikes of anything and anyone!
In a word - no (I hope that this is not too difficult a concept for you or "everybody" else to grasp, for its sheer simplicity is such that even Mr Barrett has felt disposed to use it as the title of one of his works, as of course you already know). You cite three statements here. In the first, I wrote that I am not arguing for or against Mr Pace's view on the difficulties of certain pieces. In the second, I argued that the perceived difficulty or otherwise of any given work should not be accorded undue importance - I should perhaps have clarified my reasoning by adding "except in cases where the composer's principal intent was to create difficulty for its own sake" (although doubtless you would then have found it "convenient" to assume - albeit quite wrongly - that I seek to attribute such an intent to some of the composers mentioned - which I do not). In the third, I noted that there is a difference between writing something that is not intended to be taken too seriously and writing intended sarcasm. I see no incompatibility between these statements, but then I would appear not to have your level of perception. By the way, the long word you use here has no "t" and its "f" should be "ph" in customary English English.
Who is this "we" of whom you write? I didn't take your statement about Mr Sorabji or your question about Mr Powell seriously enough to assume that it warranted - or that you even sought - answers, so I didn't even bother to duck the latter as there seemed to be little or nothing to duck. I might ask you if you hug a pillow at night and pretend that it's Mr Xenakis or Mr Pace, but that would of course be another rhetorical question not to be taken any more seriously than I took yours - to say nothing of the fact that answering either of these puerile questions seriously - or indeed even at all - would be grossly insulting to Messrs Sorabji, Powell, Xenakis and Pace.
Sugar-coated semen and oranges with pita bread; now there's an interesting taste combination!Best,Alistair
Isn't this a thread about the sweetest piece? What's sorabji doing here? jk
And when I say "everybody", I mean every single person I have ever asked with the exception of your loyal forum lapdog, John Carey, who is actually a pretty cool guy so I have no idea how you managed to get him to give a *** about you.
Nearly every single person on this forum detests you and your huge ego and your excruciatingly boring posts. And you talk about me quoting people- would you like direct quotes? Because I can produce them very easily.
Actually I have Ian Pace chained up in the basement and I snuggle with him when I'm feeling lonely. Do you have an OUNCE of humor in your entire body? Do you even remember what this argument was started over? Are you really this pathetically insecure?
Topic: The sweetest piano piece 