Playing With An Orchestra

[jamie_liszt]

Hey

I am sure many people on this board have performed with an orchestra. I am having alot of negative thoughts because I never thought that this would happen to me at age 16, I always thought I would never get the chance until my late 20's IF my career was successful. I always watched Lang Lang, Argerich, Horowitz, Richter playing with Orchestras thinking it was easy but its come to my attention that if you make one slip you may be gone.

For the people that have played with orchestras, what is it like ? Do you get more nervous than usual and do you get thoughts like, what if I stuff up, I cant stuff up because the orchestra is there. what if i have a mental block black out thingy and forget what to play, or make a fool of yourself and dont start playing at the right time after an orchestral part (if the piano comes back in at an odd part or timing)

These are the things that i worry about. This will be my first time with an orchestra (if i make it past auditions etc.)

also in comps like these, at the audition do you usually hand the sheet music there and then and the pianist plays the ochestral part from sight ? or do you have to get intouch with the pianist of your choice and send them the music.  Before the audition they dont know where you slow down in the piece or anything, so do you have to stay perfectly intime. Ive never done this before.

[el nino]

Be yourself,because you are a solist,they are here to get accustomed to you,not reverse. If you play nice and they way the piece should be played,then you have nothing to worry about,they will catch you after some rehearsals

[elspeth]

Make friends with the conductor! It'll really help if the two of you can go through the piece before you try it with the orchestra first time.

Remember, within reason, you as the soloist are in charge of the piece. You pick the tempo and so on. Take any comments from the conductor on board but don't let them intimidate you. Let the conductor sort the orchestra out, it's not your place to have to correct them or rehearse them, but equally if they're doing anything that doesn't fit your reading of the piece and you don't hear the conductor pull them up on it you must talk to the conductor and get them to sort it out.

Don't worry about missing bits or missing cues. If the worst happens and it's irretrievable they'll stop the piece and start again at an appropriate place. If you're really scared about this it might help to have a prearranged panic 'I'm lost, I need to start again' signal with the conductor. Talking about cues, the conductor is there for you as well as the orchestra. You must be aware of them because they will give you your cues if you need them.

Also remember the conductor - and by extension the orchestra - will be looking to you for cues. They won't start till you're ready (even if they have a long intro to play before you do anything - and take as long as you need, make sure you're comfortable before you even think about starting), and equally won't relax at the end of a movement until you take your hands off the keys. If you're playing cadenzas, make sure your conductor knows them so they can get their next entry right.

Do take a copy of the score for rehearsals even if you don't play from it and don't intend to in the performance. Orchestral rehearsals often involve a lot of going back and looking at things, and it'll be really useful for you to have a reference for bar numbers and so on so you know which bit the conductor wants to run again.

One other obvious thing, listen to recordings of the piece with the score. Get a feel for what the orchestra are doing relative to the solo part. To help with cues if you have a few bars' rest, note what instrument plays your cue. If you play from score write those things on.

And lastly, even though it may be scary, enjoy it! Playing with an orchestra is wonderful when it comes together. I've never done it on piano but I have playing flute and I loved it. You'll get hooked!

[teresa_b]

Hi Jamie,

How fabulous for you!  I have played with a local chamber orchestra several times, and it is SO much fun, and a great experience. 

My thoughts are: 

Yes, YOU set tempo.  They follow you--although how much liberty you can take may depend on the number of times you get to rehearse, thus the more you get the "feel" of each other.  But BE CONFIDENT--You WILL be nervous, but remember, YOU are the one who is putting yourself "out there!"  That alone is a big accomplishment.  The other musicians will respect you even if you make a slip!  (and the audience won't likely even know it)

It is startling at first when you hear all that sound around you.  It can initially be confusing because you are not used to hearing yourself being nearly drowned out at times!  Do have your teacher or some good listener in the audience at rehearsal so you know how it sounds out there. 

Practice beforehand with the goal of NEVER STOPPING if you make a mistake!  Either play along with a recording, or with a metronome, or something so that you get used to going smoothly past a mistake.  (Obviously, you are also doing any passagework necessary to minimize errors, but when you get a little nervous, you will probably make a few.) 

In case of a memory slip or other nasty slip, have places where you can immediately pick it up again.  In rehearsal of course, the orchestra may stop and restart, but in a performance you prefer not to have that happen!

All great musicians have had slips, so don't get too worried about that.  The piece will be wonderful even with an error or two.  I once heard John O'Conner play Beethoven PC 4 and mess up an ENTIRE PAGE of arpeggios in the development section.  He found his way and sailed right on past, and most of the audeince never knew Beethoven did NOT write those particular notes. 

Most of all, have fun!
Teresa

[pianorama]

Oh, this brings back a bad memory..... (though I was only performing with 1 violinist, which isn't quite the same as an entire orchestra)

 This year I was asked to perform a violin/piano duet for Mozart's 250th birthday. It was pretty easy, only about gr. 5 or 6 (RCM). I hadn't really practiced the day of the concert, and 3 parts I totally screwed up, and t was only a 2 1/2 page song!

The first time I messed up I had forgotten the repeats, but the violinist kept going, so I just faked a bit and I got back on track. The 2nd time I wasn't so lucky though. After we had repeated the part I messed up, it went into the alternativo part. But no, I had to get nervous, and I repeated the section for a second time! woops! I had even forgotten what my part sounded like. (I sometimes got confused because it almost looked and sounded like I should be playing triplets, but it is just regular 8th notes) I just stopped playing, whispered quickly to the violinist to start from te pick up (which I had forgotten I had too). Nevertheless, we continued playing. Then, less than half a page later, I had a 2 1/2 octave jump (though it was slower than the rest of the song), and I totally missed the notes, got flustered (for the umpteenth time), forgot where my next few bars lined up with her violin part. I stopped again, pretending she had a short 2 bar solo, and then I picked up!

So you know what, if you make a mistake, just pretend that it's supposed to be that way!


Good luck, I hope you make (made?) the audition and play well

[bon_bear]

*claps claps* You're so lucky... all of you!!
Wow! I wish i get to play with an orchestra That'll be something totally out of my mind too...

and...not to go off the topic but...besides going through auditions, wat other ways are you able to play with an orchestra? I mean...unless you get famous...by then ppl ASK you to play but...let's say you want to...and you haf absolutely NO connections with any of these music ppl...hehe~
Erm..does anyone understand wat i'm trying to say?
lol...
elizabear~

[teresa_b]

*claps claps* You're so lucky... all of you!!
Wow! I wish i get to play with an orchestra That'll be something totally out of my mind too...

and...not to go off the topic but...besides going through auditions, wat other ways are you able to play with an orchestra? I mean...unless you get famous...by then ppl ASK you to play but...let's say you want to...and you haf absolutely NO connections with any of these music ppl...hehe~
Erm..does anyone understand wat i'm trying to say?
lol...
elizabear~

It's pretty hard to play with an orchestra if you have NO connections.  Audition seems to me the only way.     I knew the director of our chamber orchestra, AND I auditioned for him. 

Good luck!
Teresa

[anda]

i know how you feel - i have a student who is going through the same ordeal as you

so, a few little (minor) tips:

1. you have to know very very well the orchestral score - don't think in terms such as "soloist" and "accompanist", but rather think it as a equal partenership. so: pick a recording which is closest to your own version (in terms of tempi, rubato, etc.) and listen a lot, paying attention to the orchestra not only when the piano is not playing

2. you need tons of practice with a second piano - maybe you could ask your teacher to do it, and also ask your teacher to play through a whole part without stopping for you (you need to learn to manage any kind of incident in any place)

3. if this is your first performance with an orchestra, then maybe you could manage to get a  private rehearsal with the conductor (prior to the rehearsals with the orchestra) - it would benefit you. if you do get: first of all let the conductor know about your tempi (for each part, or for each section if needed), then ask him to try conducting while you play for him (this way, he will know in advance exactly where and how you intend to use rubato)

best luck,
anda

[kriskicksass]

Incidentally, I'm going to conduct an orchestra that's accompanying a piano concerto in a few months. I've always wanted to give it a shot behind the podium, and a friend of mine happened to know a Mozart concerto with a particularly easy orchestra part (No. 12 in A Major), so we arranged it with our school's orchestra teacher to have me conduct while he plays his solo.

I'm starting rehearsals with the string players next week and I'm kinda nervous. I've been pouring over the score endlessly and I've already worked out the bowings for the different sections (I've been a string player almost as long as a pianist, so this worked out nicely). Also, I'm in the community chamber orcehstra as a double bassist and I'm going to ask our conductor if he could give me a few pointers.

Has anyone here ever conducted before? Any suggestions?


Anyone

[elspeth]

First and most important, you are in charge of the orchestra! Plan your rehearsals, which movements you want to blitz, which bits need improving and so on. You are also in charge of discipline, every orchestra I've ever played in would sit and chat or in extreme circumstances escape to the pub at half time if the conductor was weak. Don't let them play you up - allow a certain amount of leeway, it has to be fun, but if you let them run riot they will.

It sounds like you've already done the next most important thing, learned your piece. Go through it with your soloist and make sure you know how fast they want to take it, any dynamics not being played as marked, and so on, so you can get the orchestra playing them right from the start. If there are any cadenzas involved make sure you know at least how they begin and end so you can bring the orchestra in and out at the right moments. Go through the score while listening to a recording, and conduct the recording. A friend of mine who is a conductor sets her living room up with things in the right places for the sections of the orchestra and conducts them, so she can wave flute cues at the spider plant and so on...

It would probably be useful if you can get to a performance of any concerto, get a seat where you can see the soloist and conductor clearly (so, front and left hand side as you face the stage) and watch their interaction.

If you already play in orchestras you know what you as a musician need from a conductor. Try to do that and you'll be fine! Trust the musicians to handle most of their own technical issues, your focus should be getting them to play cohesively and getting the style right. Make sure you're scrupulous about things like trills starting on the upper note if you're playing Mozart - details are everything. I imagine you must already know the basic conducting patterns if you're even considering this, and that you beat time with your right hand and do style and cues with your left. Oh, never forget to take a pencil to rehearsals for scribbling notes on your score (and to conduct with if you forget the baton!).

Good luck and enjoy!

[tompilk]

i would do anything to play with an orchestra... 8 hours a day or whatever, but other studies take too much time.. especially GCSEs.. and i want to be a pianist the absolute most, but i dont have the time, and a doctor seems to be a more 'secure' path to follow.. but i suppose ill never be a pianist if i dont take risks... and im afraid i cant leave my work as im good at it (not to boast). I wish i wasnt because then there would be an obvious corse of action... anyone been in similar situations? stories? advise?
and ive only just done my grade 8 at 15, so im not like a great prodigy or anything...
Tom

[bon_bear]

I agree Tom, I'll do anything to play with an orchestra
 
Elizabear~
Oh...bwother~ Where should i start? and How do i meet these music people so i will get these connections going...lol

[teresa_b]

Elizabear,

How old are you, and where are you in your piano studies?  I know there are local and state competitions for students where you could start.  HAve you asked your piano teacher? 

Years ago when I was in college, there was at least one competition per year to play with the university orchestra.  (Of course, not everybody could win--I did not--but you might!) 

I knew our conductor because as an adult I do a lot of supporting of local classical music.  I made a point of helping raise funds, and became friends with a number of others with the same interests. 

I called the conductor and asked to audition.  I played the ENTIRE Mozart K488 concerto for him, all by my lonesome.  (You gotta get up a lot of bravery at that point.  The worst thing he can do is say "NO, you suck," or something, right?)  I was lucky, it went well--and he agreed to let me play it.

best of luck, and have fun!
Teresa