how to play scales faster?

[concerto_love]

I ask my friend to teach me piano yesterday... Actually, I want her to teach me how to play pieces. But then she ask me, "Play scales in c major 4 me".. Then she give me some example, OMG!! She plays really fast and I can't do that!

I should practice scales more, but... I still can't get faster... How should I practice so I can get faster and faster in playing scales..?

[pianisten1989]

Can you play it slowly? That's the first thing. Then you have to be realaxed in your arms, in your wrist and the fingers which doesn't play. then, when you can do that, raise the tempo each time, but just by a little. After a while you'll be able to play it faster.

[nyonyo]

Playing scale well at slow tempo does not mean that you can play fast well.
The key is the position of your thumb. You can have incorrect thumb position and play it well at slow tempo. But you won't be able to do it at fast tempo.

[hyrst]

Even at a slow tempo, if the thumb is not correct the scales will not sound smooth.

I would only add to Pianisten's advice that a metronome is very helpful once you know How to play a scale.  It helps get precise movements at a slow tempo and then you can increase it a little at a time and see how much you are improving.  Ask your freidn to play slower for you.  If you just started, you can't expect to be as fast as someone who has been playing for a long time.  If you keep it up, though, then you will be the one amazing people. 

Take a bite at a time.  But, most people don't actually start playing piano by learning to play a scale.  There really are more important things to start with.  Just enjoy whatever you are doing and realise nobody starts out with these skills, they learn them like you will.

[nyonyo]

I totally do not agree with hyrst. When you play slow, we have enough time to reposition incorrect thumb position. Therefore, we can still play smoothly. But when we play fast, if the position of the thumb is incorrect, we will not have time to reposition our thumb correctly. The thumb should always 45 degree against the keyboard. If you do this, you can play fast once you remember the sequence.

If you want to prove this, ask you friend who can play fast to play slow. Look at his thumb. The position of his or her thumb will be the same whether he plays fast or slow.

[db05]

The problem with playing slow is that you have time to correct the wrong position. If you practice too much slowly, you might ingrain this step. You can avoid this by always looking at your movement when playing and staying relaxed. Play both fast and slow, fast to develop speed and slow for accuracy (not missing notes, and working for smoothness).

My previous teacher had me pushing for speed all the time, and this proved detrimental. I took a break this summer and it was a lot better when I got back and relearned all my scales and Hanon.

I must add that it might not even be necessary for you to play very fast scales at this stage. Even I do not play very fast scales and exercises, but I learned to bring my pieces to speed. If your piece demands it, practice it, but if it doesn't, you don't have to worry about that yet. So unless you're learning K545 or something of the sort, no worries.  Better be familiar with all scales, never mind the speed. I know all my scales/ arpeggios in theory but I can't play all of them LOL.

I'd already given you tips yesterday, just tell me if you have more questions.

[concerto_love]

thanks you! Any other tips..? My friend told me I should practice scales one hour a day, then My teacher said I can play the scales' rhythm as I like... Can I do that? I mean.. is it okay if I practice one hour a day and change the rhythm as I like..?

[keypeg]

If you have a teacher, why are you asking your friend to teach you how to play the piano?  If your teacher is telling you to do a specific thing, why are you asking here whether your teacher's advice should be followed?  Your teacher's instructions are aimed at certain results which can only happen if you follow them.  Try it every day, wait a few weeks and see what happens.

What your friend demonstrated was a final result: being able to play scales fast.  The things you are asked to do beforehand lead to these results: it's a process.  If you go through the process, you'll end up being able to play fast scales as a result of that process.  If you just try fast scales, you might end up with tangled fingers or tense hands and an uneven sound.

Last night I downloaded a book which is a series of letters that Czerny wrote to a 12 year old young student every few weeks to guide her.  He stresses that what she is asked to do now is just a stepping stone and not the ultimate goal, but will lead to proficiency at the piano.  He discusses scales at length, btw.

[concerto_love]

my teacher didn't tell me anything bout scales... She never asked me to play faster.. but she asked me to play slow, but correctly.. that's all...

[db05]

thanks you! Any other tips..? My friend told me I should practice scales one hour a day, then My teacher said I can play the scales' rhythm as I like... Can I do that? I mean.. is it okay if I practice one hour a day and change the rhythm as I like..?

1 hour LOL? I don't do scales for more than 20 minutes. But of course, I practice piano 2 hours tops. Do you spend much time at the piano? Tell us how you practice and what you're learning so we can put it into context.

Your teacher is very lenient. Your friend must be Chiaki. No, on second thought, I don't think Chiaki ever made anyone play scales for an hour. He did teach others to play musically.

[nyonyo]

thanks you! Any other tips..? My friend told me I should practice scales one hour a day, then My teacher said I can play the scales' rhythm as I like... Can I do that? I mean.. is it okay if I practice one hour a day and change the rhythm as I like..?

Are you planning to be the KING or QUEEN of Scale? One hour is tooooooo long for practicing scale.

[frank_48]

Are you planning to be the KING or QUEEN of Scale? One hour is tooooooo long for practicing scale.

i practice all my scales/arpgeggios daily just to keep them in good condition or as a general warmup, i have about 20 different scales, which takes about an hour, is that so bad?

[db05]

i practice all my scales/arpgeggios daily just to keep them in good condition or as a general warmup, i have about 20 different scales, which takes about an hour, is that so bad?

We should take it into context. If you're practicing 5 or more hours a day, it's fine to do scales for an hour. It's just 1/5 of your time or less. But if you're doing scales half the time, you're wasting precious time!

[ramseytheii]

Ways to play scales faster: do you know the key signature?
Do you know the fingering?

Practice certain scales (C, G, D, A, E, a melodic, e melodic, c melodic, g melodic, d melodic) in contrary motion (hands are mirror images of each other and it becomes easier to play)

Practice all scales with palms up and fingers touching the bottom side of a table, or the bottom side of the keyboard.  This improves finger action and relates the finger action to the whole hand.

Practice scales with the hands a third apart; a sixth; a tenth.

Practice scales in consecutive thirds, sixths and octaves.

Be creative!

Walter Ramsey

[hyrst]

Hi Keypeg,
Are you able to share a URL for that download, please?  It sounds very interesting and helpful.

[nyonyo]

I don't understand why people need to practice every single scale.
If they are very similar, I do not think it is wise to spend time to practice.
For example, if you know how to do D Major, you do not need to practice E or G or A. Once you master several important scales, just practice those.
Why do you need to waste time to practice every single scale.

You'd better off practicing Chopin Etudes or other stuffs.

[antichrist]

yea just understand some sequence

then keep on practise

[hyrst]

I don't want to join a debate about the value of scales, etc.  However, for those who are happy practicing scales, it is actually a very good thing to do a large variety.  It is more than a few finger sequences or key signatures.  Each scale actually places your hand in slightly different positions or works different fingers in different ways.  Try comparing the feeling of C major to Bb minor if you want to test out a very obvious difference - or why not also try A major and F# minor?  These latter two share a key signature but the fingers are exercised very differently.

[lostinidlewonder]

it is all about hand position. When you practice the Cmaj scale for instance why don't you try to play them as chord clusters.

RH: CDE (123) FGABC(12345) CDE(123) etc
LH: CDEFG(54321)ABC(321) etc.

The thumb should move from above rather than come from underneath the hand the faster you go. If you play a scale slowly you can go under the hand. This chordal practice will develop that faster movement of the thumb and the preparation required of all your fingers. But it is hard to really give you advice without sitting with you.

[db05]

it is all about hand position. When you practice the Cmaj scale for instance why don't you try to play them as chord clusters.

RH: CDE (123) FGABC(12345) CDE(123) etc
LH: CDEFG(54321)ABC(321) etc.

Sounds like Chang's parallel sets. None of my teachers taught me that, and I had to learn on my own. So I don't know if what I do is right, but it did help my playing. And I find it analogous to the way I learn chord progressions on the guitar. Changes first, then rhythm/ plucking.

concerto, I must stress that your friend is a monster. 

[cai hong]

heyyy that friend who told concerto to practice up her skill on scales IS ME

I must say that her scales still need practice because her scale effected her pieces

[db05]

heyyy that friend who told concerto to practice up her skill on scales IS ME

I must say that her scales still need practice because her scale effected her pieces

I knew it! Chiaki!
Haha I didn't think you'd come and admit it

[cai hong]

I knew it! Chiaki!
Haha I didn't think you'd come and admit it

ummm well I thought people will hate me because I made her practice those scales often...

[concerto_love]

I'm goin to die!! I can't do it!!  and I lose all my confidence after hearin someone's playin...

[db05]

I'm goin to die!! I can't do it!!  and I lose all my confidence after hearin someone's playin...

Chiaki, you FAIL!!!!!!! You made a girl cry! 

love, don't cry. You're making me really sad and angry.

[concerto_love]

db, it's all my fault... If I practice harder... guys, thanks for the tips, I'll try it soon!

[concerto_love]

Well, this is what happen yesterday night. I tried to play scales once again, and I realized that I'm getting faster than before. But somewhat I felt there's somekind of tension in my hand. If I try to make my hands relax, it'll slow down... Is it normal and what should I do then?

[cai hong]

Chiaki, you FAIL!!!!!!! You made a girl cry! 

love, don't cry. You're making me really sad and angry.

ARGH then I will die in shame! *do harakiri*

WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ME!? I'M NOT A GOOD TEACHER!!! I TOLD CON THAT SHE WAS WRONG TO CHOOSE ME!!! BECAUSE I CAN'T TEACH PEOPLE!!!!!

and I'M NOT CHIAKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY NAME IS CAI HONG NOT CHIAKI!!!!!

[concerto_love]

eeeeh!!!! Stooop!! db, u're stressemaaan!!! 

[cai hong]

AND MY NAME IS NOT CHIAKI!!!!! NO MATTER HOW HANDSOME AND TALENTED HE IS MY NAME IS STILL CAI HONG!!!!!!

as for con,you said that when you relax your hands it will slow down? I don't get it.If you relax your fingers too much,I think your fingers would be too weak to press the keyboard so it will slow down? O_O or maybe you relax your wrist? if you relax your wrist a bit it will help your fingers to move faster I think...

[concerto_love]

I see. I got tips from reading "Hakamada Piano salon". The main character use ruler so she can get the right position of wrist.. can it help? She use it like gips...

[cai hong]

I see. I got tips from reading "Hakamada Piano salon". The main character use ruler so she can get the right position of wrist.. can it help? She use it like gips...

use..ruler...for...right position...of wrist? how can?

[concerto_love]

Put it in your hand and... tied it up!!

[keypeg]

Concerto love, do not tie a ruler to your hand and do not try to make your wrist stiff or straight like that.  The best thing is if you follow your teacher and ask your teacher for advice.

Cai hong's advice to do scales is not bad, but c.h. is still young, trying to help, but not experienced yet like a teacher.  Being able to do things is like a journey: you get to play scales fast by first playing slowly, and eventually after days or weeks playing faster.  Scales are not the simplest thing to do on the piano because there is so much to them - you move your hand into new positions, you have strong and weak fingers, what your thumb does etc. so take it slowly and get your teacher's advice.

What's probably happening is that when you try to play scales fast, all your fingers are trying to get ready at the same time so they all get tense.  Your fingers have to learn to take turns, because if you make them all tense you get rigid fingers.  What happened is probably normal.  So slow down, speed up gradually and if the hand gets tense again, slow down and try again. But really, talk to your teacher.