Bernhard's Students

[shh its kaya]

This post is directed to Bernhard:

Are any of your students members of Piano Forum?
Do you tell your students about this forum?
How would you feel if you saw posts from your students about you on the Forum?

Just curious.  I would really appreciate a teacher like Bernhard here in Houston... for free :-D!

Houston is a wonderful city for music, except my parents can't pay for lessons, but you wait until I go to college!  Then I'll finally have lessons again!

One last question:

I've been playing the piano for about 10 years: 4-5 with a teacher (the first years), 5-6 self-taught.  I'm not very good at all, but if I was able to take lessons again in college (I'm 17 right now, will be in college in a year), and was serious about piano (but I would major in something like physics), would it be possible for me to attain enough skill to become a piano teacher myself someday?

Or is being a good piano teacher like being a pro at a sport, where you have to have started and followed through with it since you were old enough to walk?  (well, maybe not for all people, but at least for people like me )

-Kaya

[xvimbi]

This post is directed to Bernhard:

Sorry, I'm not Bernhard, so I can't reply to this post  

But I'll do it anyway!

One last question:

I've been playing the piano for about 10 years: 4-5 with a teacher (the first years), 5-6 self-taught.  I'm not very good at all, but if I was able to take lessons again in college (I'm 17 right now, will be in college in a year), and was serious about piano (but I would major in something like physics), would it be possible for me to attain enough skill to become a piano teacher myself someday?

Or is being a good piano teacher like being a pro at a sport, where you have to have started and followed through with it since you were old enough to walk?  (well, maybe not for all people, but at least for people like me )
-Kaya

I don't think at all that one has to become a pro first in order to teach or be able to teach. This statement is not meant to justify the US educational system, though (since you are from Houston, I thought I'd throw this in ). You definitely need to completely master the material that you teach (unless you stay in the US - I just can't let go ), but equally important, you'll have to be very good at imparting this material to your students. Many people only reach a mediocre level in their profession, but turn out to be excellent teachers. In turn, what good is a teacher who can play the whole repertoire, but can't demonstrate how s/he is doing it? If you want to teach kids you'll end up being mostly a psychologist anyway, no need to master Rach3. As long as you stay within what you can master, by all means, go ahead and become a teacher.
I would nevertheless recommend you take as many "professional" courses as possible, because you live in the US, and nothing is more important there than having all sorts of plaques hanging on your wall shouting out how good a pianist or educator you are.  
You may have to become a piano teacher anyway, because you may not be able to make a living with physics these days...

[shh its kaya]

You may have to become a piano teacher anyway, because you may not be able to make a living with physics these days...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[bernhard]

Are any of your students members of Piano Forum?
Do you tell your students about this forum?
How would you feel if you saw posts from your students about you on the Forum?

Yes, my students often tell me of this great teacher in piano forum, and how they wished they had him as their teacher instead of me. Also they often come to the lessons with printouts of Bernhard’s contributions they want to try. They want to know why I do not give them Scarlatti sonatas to learn instead of old Hanon and Czerny.

Just curious.  I would really appreciate a teacher like Bernhard here in Houston... for free :-D!

Houston is a wonderful city for music, except my parents can't pay for lessons, but you wait until I go to college!  Then I'll finally have lessons again!  

As Milton Freedman was fond of saying, there is no free lunch in this universe. However this does not mean that the price is necessarily in money. But before we discuss this any further, consider this:

A piano teacher needs money to support himself/herself and his/her family. All teachers I know will gladly do it for free, since their main motivation for teaching is not the money (if it was they would be bankers or drug/arms dealers, or into politics) but the satisfaction derived not only from teaching but also from seeing a student develop, and hopefully surpass them. So if they are not being paid for teaching the piano, they will need to get another job so that they can teach for free. But if they do so, they will not have time to teach or do all the ancillary activities connected with teaching (preparing lessons, studying the subject, practising, etc.). So your payment basically is needed to ensure that the teacher can teach you.

Now you say your parents do not have the money to pay for piano lessons. What about you? Have you thought about generating some money? Getting a job?

If that is completely unfeasible, consider this story:

When I was 15 years old, I really got into Judo. I used to go to two lessons a week, but as I become more and more obsessed with it, I started turning up at the academy as much as five times a week. All I wanted was to train. One day the instructor came to me and said that if I wanted to come everyday, I would have to pay an extra fee. I did not have the money, and my parents would not hear of it, so I went back to twice a week.

It never occurred to me to make a non monetary offer to my instructor. I could have offered to come earlier and help with the cleaning of the place, or I could have taken some of the classes, or I could have helped him with the paperwork.

Many years later I met him again and I told him about it. He smiled and said that the money was not the important thing. But getting something for nothing was bad for character, and he had expected me to make an offer – which I never did. In fact, he said that he would have accepted me if I would become so good that I could win competitions for the academy, since this was good propaganda.

Teachers need to live too, so some sort of payment is in order. But who knows? Most of us would teach for free just because we like to do it. So here is a question you may ask yourself. Is there anything your prospective teacher needs that you can provide? If you don’t know, ask. Make him/her an offer.

About seven years ago, I had a grade 8 student who was talented but extremely lazy. I told his father that he needed more lesson time. The father replied that he could not afford it. And then he asked me: can we have an arrangement for the extra time? I replied, yes, certainly. If your son will prepare for this competition next year, and if he manages to get a prize (not necessarily first prize) I will give him a full grant. And if he fails you only need to pay me the normal amount you are already paying me. The father was very happy with this arrangement. The boy however was very angry and resentful. He said he would not enter any competition, since this would mean he had to practise extra hard. So I stopped teaching him. He did not want to learn to play. He was after a free lunch.

One last question:

I've been playing the piano for about 10 years: 4-5 with a teacher (the first years), 5-6 self-taught.  I'm not very good at all, but if I was able to take lessons again in college (I'm 17 right now, will be in college in a year), and was serious about piano (but I would major in something like physics), would it be possible for me to attain enough skill to become a piano teacher myself someday?

Or is being a good piano teacher like being a pro at a sport, where you have to have started and followed through with it since you were old enough to walk?  (well, maybe not for all people, but at least for people like me  

Thanks xvimbi, for your excellent answer, I would not have said it better. However I would like to add a few things.

1.      The only requirement for you to become a teacher is for you to have a student. Once you find someone willing to learn from you, that’s it, you have become a teacher. If the student is also willing to pay for your teaching, you’ve made it! You are a professional teacher. On the other hand, no student, no teacher.

2.      You do not need any qualifications to teach, as long you are into a private contract with your student. You only need qualifications if they are requested. Typically private individuals never require them, and typically educational institutions always require them. In fact if an educational institution offers a job it will use the number and prestige of the qualifications to decide between different applicants. Also educational institutions will always disregard your teaching skills and consider only your qualifications. It has been my experience that without fail highly qualified people are very poor in real skills. Consider for a moment all the famous composers. None of them had any qualifications. And the ones who had (like Debussy) usually had very poor ones. Or consider Leschetizky, the most famous piano teacher (or at least the most talked about). No qualifications whatsoever. Now observe all these University professors of piano with loads of letters after their names. Have you ever heard any CD by any of them? Unlikely. I am talking about the ones who claim to be performers, not the ones who claim to be teachers. Good teachers do not need to be good performers (in fact they cannot be – but this is another issue).

3.      You should take a degree if you think this is going to improve your skills. You should not take a degree if the only reason is to get a “license” to work. Unless you want to teach in an educational establishment, you will not need such a license. I only teach privately nowadays, and no one has ever asked about my degrees. Typically people who establish a private contract with you are interested in skills, not in credentials. People who want credentials will enrol their children in music schools, not with private teachers. I have seen flyers from certain teachers where most of the space is dedicated to the teacher’s accomplishments: which degrees they have, with which hot shot they studied, which competitions they won, and what great piano concertists they are. Funny enough I have never heard of them before.

Now listen carefully to what I am about to say: no prospective student has any interest whatsoever in you, or how good you are. All they really care about is what they are going to get from studying with you. So my flyers and hand outs (which I sent to prospective students once they make an initial enquiry) has absolutely no information whatsoever about me. It does not mention any degrees, it says nothing about my skills as a teacher, it has no indication of any prizes or trophies I may have won. All that it contains is what I have to offer to my students.

When we have our first interview I never sit at the piano and play so that they can see if I can play or not. Believe me, they are not interested in my playing. All they care about is if they will be able to play. So in this first interview I show them videos of my students. How they played in their first week and how they played three months later. These days I rarely if ever do even that, because they are usually referred to me by one of my students. Typically one of my students (say a 7 year old girl) goes to a friend house where there is a piano. She sits there and plays. The adults in the house are curious, and sometimes impressed. They ask: How long have you been having lessons? “Four months, since January”. That is when the jaws drop. You see she is playing a repertory that usually takes five – six years to master, and she is playing far better than the student who has been at it for 5 – 6 years. Invariably I get a phone call the next day. So I do not have really a reputation in the usual sense of the word. These parents have never heard of me. One parent who was quite an overachiever, actually said to me: “I know all piano teachers in the area, how come I have never heard of you?” This pleases me no end, he he.

Then again, once the prospective student receives my printed information explaining the way I teach, they are in for a shock. I reckon that from all enquiries I get, about 10 % go ahead and have lessons with me. But that is all right. I have more than enough with just these 10 % which are usually the serious students.

4.      Finally:

if I was able to take lessons again in college (I'm 17 right now, will be in college in a year), and was serious about piano (but I would major in something like physics), would it be possible for me to attain enough skill to become a piano teacher myself someday?

There are too many “ifs” here. What are you waiting for? Make a list of the skills that you think are necessary for becoming a piano teacher and start acquiring them straight away. Have a look at this thread where some of the skills necessary to be a piano teacher are discussed:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1073620131


Would it be possible for you to attain these skills? I have no idea. I do not know you. The fact of the matter is: there is no way to know, except by going ahead and doing it. The only true limitation we human beings have is death. If you are still alive, there is hope.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Shagdac]

Yes, my students often tell me of this great teacher in piano forum, and how they wished they had him as their teacher instead of me. Also they often come to the lessons with printouts of Bernhard’s contributions they want to try.

That's too funny! Just curious...have any of them ever figured out that you ARE Bernhard? Have you ever told any of them?

S

[Antnee]

About seven years ago, I had a grade 8 student who was talented but extremely lazy. I told his father that he needed more lesson time. The father replied that he could not afford it. And then he asked me: can we have an arrangement for the extra time? I replied, yes, certainly. If your son will prepare for this competition next year, and if he manages to get a prize (not necessarily first prize) I will give him a full grant. And if he fails you only need to pay me the normal amount you are already paying me. The father was very happy with this arrangement. The boy however was very angry and resentful. He said he would not enter any competition, since this would mean he had to practise extra hard. So I stopped teaching him. He did not want to learn to play. He was after a free lunch.

HOLY CRAP!!!! What an IDIOT!!     ::

-Tony-

[shh its kaya]

Thanks again for the excellent post Bernhard.  You always do such a thorough job when replying.

Your post has motivated me to start getting rid of those "if's" and start rolling into action.  Thank you so much.

I was only joking about having a teacher for free.  I realize how we all need to survive somehow, and it is more than reasonable for a teacher to charge for his/her services.  I have attempted seeking employment (and still am) but I've been stuck with nothing but odd jobs here and there that don't pay much at all and aren't a reliable source of money (one month, I could have no odd jobs, and no cash, hence can't pay for the lessons that month).  But I never considered offering services to the teacher for lessons.  I'll have to try that out to see if I can convince a teacher.

Thank you again, Bernhard.  It's always a joy to read your posts.

-Kaya

[donjuan]

About seven years ago, I had a grade 8 student who was talented but extremely lazy. I told his father that he needed more lesson time. The father replied that he could not afford it. And then he asked me: can we have an arrangement for the extra time? I replied, yes, certainly. If your son will prepare for this competition next year, and if he manages to get a prize (not necessarily first prize) I will give him a full grant. And if he fails you only need to pay me the normal amount you are already paying me. The father was very happy with this arrangement. The boy however was very angry and resentful. He said he would not enter any competition, since this would mean he had to practise extra hard. So I stopped teaching him. He did not want to learn to play. He was after a free lunch.

I dont get it- "free lunch"?

[faulty_damper]

It's an expression that means you want to recieve something without giving something in return.

[bernhard]

That's too funny! Just curious...have any of them ever figured out that you ARE Bernhard? Have you ever told any of them?

S

And miss all the fun I am having? No way!

Besides, before they never listened to me. Now they are following Bernhard’s advice to the letter he he.

And  I don't think they would believe me.

As Ronald Reagan once said: “There are no heights a human being cannot reach if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit”.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

HOLY CRAP!!!! What an IDIOT!!     ::

-Tony-

Actually, I wouldn’t say he was an idiot, just some lazy 14 year old…

[bernhard]

I dont get it- "free lunch"?

I just saw Faulty's explanation. He is right. Might as well post what I had written:

Milton Friedman, famous American economist use to say: “There are no free lunches in this universe” Meaning that you always have to pay for your lunch somehow. He was warning people about freebies. If someone offers you to take you to lunch for free, you will always end up paying one way or another.

This particular student was not prepared to “pay” in any way. Not in money, and not in personal effort. Yet he seemed to believe that he was going to get a “free lunch” – something for nothing. So I kicked him out of my “restaurant”.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

But I never considered offering services to the teacher for lessons.  I'll have to try that out to see if I can convince a teacher.

Thank you again, Bernhard.  It's always a joy to read your posts.

-Kaya

You are welcome.  

Most teachers will teach for free if they come across a willing student. You see, willing students are very rare. And so are good teachers. Now comes an interesting paradox: The good teacher will teach a good student for free. But a good student will pay his weight in gold for the lessons of a good teacher. So it is important not to confuse roles here for if you do, someone will be taking advantage of someone else. And this sort of situation usually does not end well.

So if you are a student you must have the appropriate philosophy for a student, which is to pay your teacher (not necessarily with money) to the limits of you capacity.

If you are a teacher, you must ask for something you can live with, no more and no less,  otherwise in no time at all you will start resenting the student.

There is a very fine line here, and ideally everyone should be happy and no one should feel that they are being taken advantage of.

There is also something else, and that is the fact that you only value that which you paid dearly for. If you get something for nothing, no matter what its real value is, for you its value will always be zero.

A parent will always make sure his/her child is practising if they are paying a hefty amount for their piano lessons. And the teacher will always be well predisposed towards a student that pays correctly and in time.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ThePhoenixEffect]

Bernhard, surely one of your students must've figured it out it is you?  

[bernhard]

Bernhard, surely one of your students must've figured it out it is you?  

Nope, not yet (the five year olds are beginning to suspect though).

[xvimbi]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

You should be fine as long as you pick something that is trendy and has a solid future, such as biophysics, nanotechnology or bunker busterology
Well, at least today, those are the trendy fields.
Always skim the market and think several years ahead in terms of what you want to do. Not many physicists do that and find themselves in areas without funding.

[faulty_damper]

Nope, not yet (the five year olds are beginning to suspect though).

I'm sure it was a joke.  But a funny joke.