50 worst composers

[cziffra]

Since there is another post here dealing with the 50 best composers, i thought we may as well balance things out and get a sampling of the universally unliked composers in the repertoire.  Unfortunately, i don't have a book to cite from (i don't one even exists that mentions such a thing as this) so i'll just kick off with my own contribution:

No1- Sorabji. (i doubt i'll get much criticism for saying this)
No 2- Michael Tippett

well...that's about it for me.  (Actually, it's surprising how few composers i really don't like)

[SteinwayTony]

You're going to get, from the people on this forum at least, the composers who wrote little or nothing for the piano, or did write for the piano but wrote pieces that were either too easy or too difficult (Sorabji).

An entire thread devoted to lambasting composers and their works?  What a deplorable last resort to a conversation starter.

[cziffra]

Well, you...

Yes, you're probably right.

How about this- do you believe morality is volitional?

[Lance Morrison]

I'm sure all my favourite composers are going to end up here

[klavierkonzerte]

i don't think we would know any of them.

how would we know there names if they are forgotten?

and i think this is subjective because every composer has his fans.

[willcowskitz]

Exactly what we don't need is multiple different lists consisting of different composers in different orders from highly and purely subjective people that only want to blurt out their personal "hall of shame."

If somebody's going to post here, back it up with technical basis for your views or its worth nothing.

[ted]

I think it is admissible to state preferences in music without justification. However, I have difficulty with the notion of absolute good and bad in any art and, even assuming they do exist, I certainly do not know enough to distinguish the two.

I (mainly, not always) prefer organic form, free rhythm, syncopation, to a certain extent arbitrary harmony containing surprise, spontaneity, unstable metre.

I (mainly, not always) dislike rigid form, theories, fixed rhythm, playing on the beat, rigid harmonic patterns, repetition and predictability, motoric and metrical sounds.

Therefore, it is obvious that I would tend to dislike, say, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Brahms and like, say, much Chopin, Delius, Ives, Jarrett, most ragtime and much jazz, Bridge, Ireland ….. and in fact this is the case.

As I get older though, I find I can control my tastes more than I could when younger. So one day I may wake up and find I understand Beethoven and Mozart.  It does not appear at all likely now but I try not to shut any musical doors completely.

I realise this hasn’t answered the initial question, but I cannot happily assign “good” and “bad” to any music. And even my preferences need to be justified in terms of more fundamental likes and dislikes of certain pure sounds – certainly never because of social, biographical or emotional associations with the composers themselves and their reputations, as many seem to – I cannot see the sense in that at all. 

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Since there is another post here dealing with the 50 best composers, i thought we may as well balance things out and get a sampling of the universally unliked composers in the repertoire.  Unfortunately, i don't have a book to cite from (i don't one even exists that mentions such a thing as this) so i'll just kick off with my own contribution:

No1- Sorabji. (i doubt i'll get much criticism for saying this)
No 2- Michael Tippett

well...that's about it for me.  (Actually, it's surprising how few composers i really don't like)

What a horrible waste of time! I can't believe this! Posts like this should not be allowed on the forum! First of all, you're bound to stir up trouble, as many people will be offended by what various people say. Second of all, there is no such thing as 'good' or 'bad' music, since it is all based on opinion. For instance, I am annoyed that you put Sorabji as #1. He is by no means the worst composer. And if you truly think so, at least give some facts to support your opinion!

You don't have to like any composer. And I'm not going to call you ignorant for thinking Sorabji is a bad composer. But if you have absolutely nothing to back up what you say, than your so-called list of 'worst composers' is rubbish and a pathetic attempt to start a conversation that will most obviously end in an argument.

[Sketchee]

I wonder what we could say to back up the claims in the "Most touching melody" thread.   

[SteinwayTony]

Exactly what we don't need is multiple different lists consisting of different composers in different orders from highly and purely subjective people that only want to blurt out their personal "hall of shame."

If somebody's going to post here, back it up with technical basis for your views or its worth nothing.

What a horrible waste of time! I can't believe this! Posts like this should not be allowed on the forum! First of all, you're bound to stir up trouble, as many people will be offended by what various people say. Second of all, there is no such thing as 'good' or 'bad' music, since it is all based on opinion. For instance, I am annoyed that you put Sorabji as #1. He is by no means the worst composer. And if you truly think so, at least give some facts to support your opinion!

You don't have to like any composer. And I'm not going to call you ignorant for thinking Sorabji is a bad composer. But if you have absolutely nothing to back up what you say, than your so-called list of 'worst composers' is rubbish and a pathetic attempt to start a conversation that will most obviously end in an argument.

My sentiments exactly.  Thank you.

[LVB op.57]

If they're still remembered after a few hundred years, they must've done something right, don't you think?

[Lance Morrison]

Therefore, it is obvious that I would tend to dislike, say, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Brahms and like, say, much Chopin, Delius, Ives, Jarrett, most ragtime and much jazz, Bridge, Ireland ….. and in fact this is the case.

I'm just glad to see someone mention Ives, who will always be one of my favourite composers, even if they don't like him

[thepiboy]

I don't like any popular music composers in general, due to their music being very predictable, and based on one or two different riffs. Classical Music is good, because it is interesting, and is very creative.

I must say that I don't like Mozarts pieces of music. I find them very boring, and they do not interest me one bit. He's not the worst composer. however.

I don't know many bad composers.

[m]

I must say that I don't like Mozarts pieces of music. I find them very boring, and they do not interest me one bit. He's not the worst composer. however.

It is quite brave of you to make such a statement. I must admit, I don't like many of Mozart pieces and Sonatas. I consider him a symphonic, and most of all OPERA composer. His Requiem is probably one the most emotionally involved pieces I have ever heard. I listen to his Symphonies and Operas again and again, and they never stop amazing me.

And yes, I'd agree he is not the "worst composer" 

[SteinwayTony]

He's not the worst composer.

Hmm...let's see, how shall I put this...   Oh! --

Duh.

[Glissando]

Hmm...let's see, how shall I put this...   Oh! --

Duh.

Ditto!

[pseudopianist]

Hmm...let's see, how shall I put this...   Oh! --

Duh.

OMG!!!1111 LIEK what?! ^_^ H0W C4N U BE SO D444MN C00L!?!?!?1111  YOU RULESDSKSJFOD STEINWAY OMG LIEK!=!!1111 YEAH

[galonia]

I consider him a symphonic, and most of all OPERA composer.

Mozart would agree, I think - I've always been told that to play Mozart's instrumental music properly, you have to have the attitude that opera is the ultimate art form, and play as though you are singing an aria.

[Corsair]

OMG!!!1111 LIEK what?! ^_^ H0W C4N U BE SO D444MN C00L!?!?!?1111  YOU RULESDSKSJFOD STEINWAY OMG LIEK!=!!1111 YEAH

just what i was thinking- anyway i personally think mozart is about as overrated as the beatles and, although he had a certain gift for making music, never attempted in any way to make full use of it beyond writing what is essentially pop music

[SteinwayTony]

I can slightly forgive both of you because chances are you're young and haven't the slightest clue as to what you're talking about (Pseudopianist's profile indicates he is 17).  In such a short life, I'm betting that you are making such a rash statement because you (a) are only judging his piano works, which was hardly his only forte, and/or (b) haven't listened to a hundredth of his works and are just making a quick judgment based on a few sonatas and symphonies.

[Corsair]

Well, im 19, perhaps that is young, perhaps not. Indeed many older and more experienced (better?) musicians have said that in time i will grow to love him, and i am keeping an open mind... im just stating my current view based on the works i have heard and the heinously unmusical performances of the likes of mitsuko uchida (i suppose i should expect backlash for that too but her playing always leaves me feeling very cold).
I am curious, though, about what it is you think you know that i don't.

[BoliverAllmon]

our ideas of music is also formed by the recordings or performances we hear of them. Take Mozart. It is hard for me to find a really good recording of Mozart. If I think outside the box and make the music in my head (if that makes any sense) then I love the guy. If I listen to Brendel on the other hand perform him I hate the guy.

[SteinwayTony]

It is hard for me to find a really good recording of Mozart.

That's a uniquely favorable quality in a composer, in my view.  What good is a piece that just anyone can pull off with a tape recorder and his crappy upright?

[Lance Morrison]

I prefer "crappy" pianos and very old pianofortes over the expensive modern piano...

[musik_man]

That's a uniquely favorable quality in a composer, in my view.  What good is a piece that just anyone can pull off with a tape recorder and his crappy upright?

I really can't figure out why you think this.  When it comes to listening to a piece, I couldn't care less about how hard/easy it is to pull it off well, as long as the recording I'm listening to is done well.

[Glissando]

just what i was thinking- anyway i personally think mozart is about as overrated as the beatles and, although he had a certain gift for making music, never attempted in any way to make full use of it beyond writing what is essentially pop music

As Wolfie himself would (and oftentimes did) say-
actually, uh, no I won't say that.

Just- listen to more of his stuff. There is so much pure beauty in many of his works, it's amazing.

[musik_man]

As Wolfie himself would (and oftentimes did) say-
actually, uh, no I won't say that.

"Leck mich im Arsch"

[Corsair]

right, well i'll definitely listen to more of his stuff but i hate the patronising attitude to "young" musicians; not that it is necessarily so but i might be more musical than a veteran of 50. The assumtion that musical wisdom comes with age is a huge generalisation

[Da Bachtopus]

The assumtion that musical wisdom comes with age is a huge generalisation

True.

But so is saying that Mozart wrote only "pop music".

[Skeptopotamus]

messiaen sux.

[Lance Morrison]

[Op. 1 No. 2]

messiaen sux.

Uhm...no. 

[ravel]

messiaen rocks

[Rach3]

Most dead composers who we can name by name have to have been at least halfway decent, in order to have been remembered by some people. I think there some truly abysmal composers alive right now, who can expect to be forgotten in a few years. Unfortunately they might have internet access, so I'll post my list as soon as they're dead.

(waiting...)

[steinwayguy]

Saint-Saens has to be somewhere on this list.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

Saint-Saens has to be somewhere on this list.

Oh for Christ's sake... don't even get me started about Saint-Saens. I cannot figure out what so many people on these forums have against Saint-Saens. What, dare I ask, makes his music "bad"? And how does anyone on these forums have the experience/authority to make that kind of judgement... whether a composer's music is "bad" or not.

I don't know why I bother saying it over and over again, BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD MUSIC, BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON OPINION, NOT FACT! You do NOT have to like every composer, but simply saying that they are bad, or one of the worst composers is plain stupidity and ignorance.

I won't bother visiting this horrible thread anymore, and truthfully, if I were Nils, I would delete it, as it can do no good. The only thing this thread is worth is for starting a flame war, and if that was Cziffra's intention, then I think he might very well get his wish. But I will take no part in it!

[steinwayguy]

Oh for Christ's sake... don't even get me started about Saint-Saens. I cannot figure out what so many people on these forums have against Saint-Saens. What, dare I ask, makes his music "bad"? And how does anyone on these forums have the experience/authority to make that kind of judgement... whether a composer's music is "bad" or not.

I don't know why I bother saying it over and over again, BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD MUSIC, BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON OPINION, NOT FACT! You do NOT have to like every composer, but simply saying that they are bad, or one of the worst composers is plain stupidity and ignorance.

I won't bother visiting this horrible thread anymore, and truthfully, if I were Nils, I would delete it, as it can do no good. The only thing this thread is worth is for starting a flame war, and if that was Cziffra's intention, then I think he might very well get his wish. But I will take no part in it!

k. 

[thierry13]

BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD MUSIC, BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON OPINION, NOT FACT!

It's only half true  There is no bad music cause it is opinion-based yes, and there is superior or less good music yes, if you compare the greatness of a work compared to a little piece of 1 page done in 1 hour lol. If you like better one little piece better than a great work, there is your opinion, but there can be less good music, and works of pure genius too, that are not the same level as others.

[galonia]

You tell them, Ludwig van Rachabji!

PS  I love Saint-Saens.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

k.

That is the single greatest response I have ever seen in my life! At least we're in agreement! 

It's only half true  There is no bad music cause it is opinion-based yes, and there is superior or less good music yes, if you compare the greatness of a work compared to a little piece of 1 page done in 1 hour lol. If you like better one little piece better than a great work, there is your opinion, but there can be less good music, and works of pure genius too, that are not the same level as others.

Yes, you have a point, but I never said that a work can't be better than another, I simply said that music can't be "bad" as different people like different things, and while a certain piece of music may not appeal to you (general) then that does not make it bad. Some people like Saint-Saens, some people don't. Some people like Sorabji, some people don't. Some people like Mozart, some people don't. And I respect their opinions. But I really am bothered/annoyed, when people go as far as saying that a composer's music is bad or it "sounds like crap", which is a very musically immature statement to begin with.

[steinwayguy]

I still don't see how one could dislike Mozart. I mean, it's Mozart, for God's sakes.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

I still don't see how one could dislike Mozart. I mean, it's Mozart, for God's sakes.

I agree 110%. But people do. And I don't understand it at all.

[SteinwayTony]

right, well i'll definitely listen to more of his stuff but i hate the patronising attitude to "young" musicians; not that it is necessarily so but i might be more musical than a veteran of 50. The assumtion that musical wisdom comes with age is a huge generalisation

Judging by your attitude, I'll clear this up for you right now in case there's any doubt: you're not.

Of course it's a generalization, but it's generally correct.

[Corsair]

excuse me, i don't know you and you don't know me, so less of the smarmy remarks; the point is that you really can't be sure that i don't know better than you do so you're condescending attitude is quite out of order. i merely voiced a musical opinion, which i still believe to be correct- feel free to voice yours in reply but please don't insult me... it's childish and, if i may say so, very inaccurate.