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Topic: opinion on practice schedule  (Read 4745 times)

Offline dcstudio

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #50 on: March 21, 2016, 05:36:24 PM


there is experience here on the forum.. and Kalo, I should interject here that the experience seems to be in line with Adodds views.   He himself has a great deal of experience and not once have I ever heard him try and throw miscellaneous facts out there just to sound like an expert--which happens daily around here.  He knows what it takes to do this...he's been there.  He is also very aware of the common misconceptions students have about music.

I have had many adult students bring me their self-made plans for learning to play the piano.  If I had ever seen just one that was diligently and objectively researched and compiled -- and not just a list of pieces in a predetermined order--I would shout it from the rooftops.  It's comical to most of us.. which is often perceived as disrespect... and I guess it is.

   So why is it not even slightly disrespectful of a beginner to approach a seasoned professional and then proceed to dictate their entire lesson?  It's like saying "well, I know you had to practice and work hard before you could play, I know you are highly trained both as a performer and teacher--but I think my way is better" because I spent a year on the internet looking this up.

does this even cross their minds?


I mean this is in the nicest way, Kalo--again... this is from my personal experience and the experience of every other piano teacher I have ever known...  I have no idea what your motivation is because I don't know you.



Offline kalospiano

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #51 on: March 21, 2016, 06:06:51 PM
Hi dcstudio, I'm glad to hear from you again.

Now, your post is what I feel is an example of a respectful and constructive critique.

But when I read stuff like "Your logic offends me", now, that only sounds haughty and is something completely different, but I hope we can leave that to the past.

I am 100% sure that Adodd is got much much more experience than me, just as you and keypeg and many other people in this forum, that's exactly why I dare addressing you my questions.

I also understand that you might find comical the thought of a student just going to a teacher pretending to want to play a fixed list of pieces. Which is something I didn't do, although my teacher asked himself some pieces that I wanted to play, and the Solfeggietto on my list happened to be something he would want me to practice.

During these two days from my first lesson I've practiced exactly what my teacher told me to, namely a scale, an arpeggio and the piece, but I hope it's of no surprise that I practice something else as well, since I try to do at least three hours a day on the piano (much more on weekends) which is not a lot, but definitely allows to practice more than only one scale, one arpeggio and one piece.
And what I practice is not something that I simply pulled out of my head: I've taken it from the ABRSM syllabus and from various books, and I honestly doubt that adding this stuff to my program with the teacher might be considered irrespectful, just as I don't see irrespectful for a student in a geometry class to study advanced calculus by himself, if he manages to understand anything of it.

Is it disrespectful for a beginner to question a seasoned professional? Well, I would say that it depends: saying "I want to do this and that's it" is probably disrespectful. Saying "do you think it would be possible to tailor your program according to this idea of mine?" is a humble question that might or might not receive a positive answer, for reasons that can be right or wrong.

Is it absolutely forbidden to question a teacher's word, also considering that we pay them to receive a service? I strongly believe it's always better to investigate things in depth instead of just accepting an higher commandment, which does not mean that I won't end up accepting it anyway: just that I will do it with a greater awareness.

I would just like to give a simple example of why sometimes it can be good to question a teacher's instruction. I was born in Italy, and at school I had a French teacher who teached me to speak French... with the Italianest pronunciation as possible. When, many years later, I went to actually study in France, I could hardly understand what the French people were saying. Their pronunciation were completely different from what I was expecting. My teacher had filled my head with wrong notions for 5 long years. It took me a while to understand what French is really pronounced like.
If someone came to me telling me that their new teacher just told him/her to pronounce a French word in my old teacher's style, I would immediately advise him/her to ditch that teacher. Would that be disrespectful, or just common sense?

This is just a silly example, but is indeed part of my backstory on why I'm always suspicious of other people's expertise. I could add that I wouldn't be agnostic now if I had not respectfully question my family's Christian education. Or even that, if it had not been for the war, Germany would still be Nazi without people questioning some imposed values. A certain dose of skepticism can be healthy sometimes, and forming our own opinions about something is important.

This is why I asked for comments here. Not just for accepting your opinion blindly, but simply to gather elements to form a more well rounded opinion on how to judge the quality of a teacher. And I tried to do this without showing disrespect to anyone.

Having said this, I hope we're all friends again  ;D and I still kind of hope that some of you can advise me more in detail on why you think that the lesson type of the video I showed should be avoided. As I said, I'm just interested on hearing what you think, I don't want to criticize one method and exhalt the other, but if you prefer not commenting further after all this discussion, I understand.

BTW, the name's Kalos Piano, not Kalo's Piano  ;D ;D

Offline 1piano4joe

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #52 on: March 21, 2016, 06:25:14 PM
Hi kalospiano,

While it's a FACT that ALL teachers have both their strengths and weakness, it is also a FACT that there are people who have a problem with this idea. I just don't understand these people. Here's why.

There are good and bad restaurants, yes? There are good and bad car mechanics, yes? There are good and bad doctors, yes? Why on earth should teachers be any different? They're not!

Everything marijn1999, dcstudio and keypeg said was 110% accurate. I would have mentioned some of these things if I were to respond but my opinion like Rodney Dangerfield's gets no respect.

You are doing everything right:

1. Burgmuller and ABRSM are fine! It's a plan, right?
2. You have a teacher, great. Is he/she good? Probably, but only time will tell.
3. Your year on your own was NOT a waste of time. It's possible to have bad habits even with a teacher. I'm sure you learned a lot which your current teacher verified!
4. You ask questions. That's an excellent student! Teachers are not mind readers.
5. Your using all resources at your disposal, right? Books, computers, videos, etc.

There are very good instructional videos on YouTube. Unfortunately, there are also many, many bad ones. It may offend some but I see some awful ones from teachers. I am in complete agreement with keypeg on this point.

There is one teacher who plays wrong notes, uses no dynamics, obvious inefficient fingerings and has no consideration for articulaton whatsoever! I, like keypeg, will not say who this is. I really don't think I have to since it's so glaringly obvious.

So, how do you tell? Did it help you? Did you learn something? Anything? That's how!

Even just listening can be beneficial.  I use UIPianoPed for that purpose. Absolutely impeccable performances by professors with doctorates. Nuanced playing par excellence.  

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.  


 



 

Offline dcstudio

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #53 on: March 21, 2016, 06:56:30 PM
Is it absolutely forbidden to question a teacher's word, also considering that we pay them to receive a service? I strongly believe it's always better to investigate things in depth instead of just accepting an higher commandment, which does not mean that I won't end up accepting it anyway: just that I will do it with a greater awareness.


in no way do I mean to suggest you should not question your teacher... please do--it shows thinking on your part and a good teacher will be more than happy to answer and explain.  I am also speaking from a very generalized point of view.   You have made 1 list--I have seen too many to count.  These misconceptions are not really entirely the fault of the student... you guys have so much access to information these days.   I had no forum of pianists to discuss things with or YT with billions of videos to watch and compare.   It was a totally different world---everything you knew about the piano came from your teacher.   Talk about misconceptions.. lol.

there are the old-timers like myself... brought up in a piano bubble until we got to University and saw that there were 1000s just like us.. and now there is the new generation.   You guys have seen more pianists perform live on the internet by the time you are 10 than we would have seen in 5 lifetimes.   The rules have changed so drastically--and in many ways for the better.  

before the internet--I had seen exactly 8 different concert pianists perform live in a formal setting... and I had almost all of my friends beat in that department.  

8 pianists....  ???   think about it.   

Offline reiyza

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #54 on: March 21, 2016, 07:38:27 PM
Quote
During these two days from my first lesson I've practiced exactly what my teacher told me to, namely a scale, an arpeggio and the piece, but I hope it's of no surprise that I practice something else as well, since I try to do at least three hours a day on the piano (much more on weekends) which is not a lot, but definitely allows to practice more than only one scale, one arpeggio and one piece.

Man, I feel you, but just how do you structure your practice routine? i'm curious to know. Since my situation is somewhat similar to yours, I also have 3-4 hrs of practice time, and the only assignments given to me when I first started with my teacher were, 5 hanon exercises, 3-4 czerny 599 etudes and the invention 8. Even with these simple pieces, I had a hard time practicing all of them in 4 hours without getting exhausted midway. Then again, I was a an adult beginner to begin with, so I really didn't have any idea if I'm doing the right thing.(luckily I am).

Quote
Is it absolutely forbidden to question a teacher's word, also considering that we pay them to receive a service?

Maybe there are strict teachers, but I have yet to encounter them, since I hit the jackpot with my current teacher. I always questioned my teacher, in sessions, in this forum(look at the posts pf keypeg always scolded me.), it's all right to question him/her since you are really curious about how her methods of teaching will affect your overall playing. It's a sign that you really want to learn.

Good luck!
Yup.. still a beginner. Up til now..

When will a teacher accept me? :/

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #55 on: March 22, 2016, 05:19:28 AM
Thank you marijn, dcstudio and keypeg for your answers. I must say I'm rather surprised :) I agree that the piece is elementary and that the teacher probably needs some time to assess my level, but why do you see this lady's teaching style so negatively? I thought it would be useful for a student to have an indication of the structure of the piece, the theory behind and also, why not, some historical background (if the quote from Mozart can be considered as such :) ). As keypeg said, he's exercising every ounce of his self-control to avoid criticizing in details... May I kindly ask you to refrain from controlling yourself and just let it go? :) I would be quite interested in knowing more in detail what's wrong with that kind of teaching, especially concerning the "strange strategies" that a student might think of applying, I'm not sure that I get what you mean.
The actual important point is that YOUR TEACHER IS TEACHING YOU.  There is TEACHING going on.

In fact, that is the only thing you need to know.  I spent a fair bit of time and effort in my previous post explaining what I think teaching is about, what the process is.  I hope that you have read that carefully, maybe more than once, because that is what my sentence means "Your teacher is teaching you".

I went through the video you posted again.  I had to stop around 11 min. - I couldn't take it anymore.

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I thought it would be useful for a student to have an indication of the structure of the piece,..
Unfortunately you have to pay $13 (that's the quoted Cdn price anyway) to even see what that is.  So I can't tell anything from that part.
Quote
some historical background (if the quote from Mozart can be considered as such :)
She says CPE is one of Bach's son's, and he's gotta be good because of what Mozart says.  And that he moved music into the Classical era - we keep hearing about "dramatic".  This doesn't tell me much, tbh.

Be that as it may - I kept waiting for her to teach how to play the piece.  By the 11 minute mark I was still waiting.  If this is for learners, where is the development of skills - where is anything?

For analysis, I jotted down that the pink area is "daringness". (???)

Ok, finally at the 3:00 mark we get into the playing of the piece - sort of.  She says it's a touchy piece because it's toccato, and then refers to "scratching, kneading, control in the fingertips".  Does she teach how to do that?  Should she and could she?  I'd say no - there are skills that have to be developed.  I dread the idea of any self-learner trying to figure what that might mean and maybe messing their hands doing it.

She then says the LH is "easy", by plunking out the chords.   That's taken care of, and at 4:30 we're at the RH.  She talks of a "harmonic outline" and plays a melodic passage or theme; she illustrates that this passage repeats itself in other keys, and plays it.  POINT - Will a relative novice have the ears to hear this?  Can a novice mentally or any other way transpose that outline.  * I * can hear it.  But I have a bit of background in music.

Going on - heading towards 6:30 she plonks back and forth telling us there is a 10th here, a 3rd there, a 6th over here.  Have these students learned to recognize intervals?  What are they supposed to do with those intervals?  It sounds more like a musician talking to herself about what she herself will notice as she goes through this piece.

Some time after 6:30 she identifies a "hard part", and tells us it's a melodic minor scale.  Great if you know your melodic minor scales (in which case you'll probably recognize it without being told).  She says that here your arm should "pull" and plays it with a "pulling arm".  I'll tell you, I'm a student myself, developing my technique with my teacher's help - I could mess myself up trying to follow those instructions.

Anyway - I don't see teaching there - not something that one can work with.  I don't see the development of skills.  to me it's - I don't know what it is - I could not work with this.  I could not find anything to work with or use in the 11 minutes that I watched.

Your teacher probably IS developing your skills - using this piece to do so.

Offline shostglass

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #56 on: March 22, 2016, 05:28:35 AM
Where's Scarbo and the hammerklavier sonata? ;D

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #57 on: March 22, 2016, 05:35:27 AM
During these two days from my first lesson I've practiced exactly what my teacher told me to, namely a scale, an arpeggio and the piece, but I hope it's of no surprise that I practice something else as well, since I try to do at least three hours a day on the piano (much more on weekends) which is not a lot, but definitely allows to practice more than only one scale, one arpeggio and one piece.  

Given the length of the piece in question, yes, it IS of surprise, and you could have filled 3 hours and more just on that material.  But it speaks more to your inexperience, of things you can still learn, which if you do, you will be quite glad of.

I'd like to take your first statement as food for thought:
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I've practiced exactly what my teacher told me to, namely a scale, an arpeggio and the piece...
Did your teacher only tell you "what" to practice in the sense of a list, of named things (scale, arpeggio, piece)?  Did he give you a "how" to the "what"?  Did he give you things to focus on while you practice them?  These are very essential, crucial things.  Think more - He may not have said specifically, "Practice a scale, and when you do so, I want you to focus on xxx."  But he may have pointed out things while you played these things in the lesson.  He may have pointed out a weakness - that is a thing for you to focus on.  He may have given you a new approach: told you to do a particular thing as you worked together.  Pay tight attention to these things, remember them when you get home, write them down.  If you do this, and then practise toward them, then the three things you listed will become 30 things.

I, too, practised last night.  My main focus was on TWO measures - eight beats, and a bit less, the two that followed it.  I lost track of time.  There were details to work out, weaknesses to iron out, new things to change.  The list you have given could easily take me those three hours, depending on what I end up doing with it.
Quote
Is it absolutely forbidden to question a teacher's word, also considering that we pay them to receive a service? I strongly believe it's always better to investigate things in depth instead of just accepting an higher commandment, which does not mean that I won't end up accepting it anyway: just that I will do it with a greater awareness.
Here is how you investigate -- and it is the only way.  You must DO.  You must do the things your teacher advises you to do, consistently, daily, over weeks.  What you have to learn will only reveal itself through that doing.  You block the learning otherwise, and find out nothing.

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #58 on: March 22, 2016, 05:36:09 AM
Where's Scarbo and the hammerklavier sonata? ;D
huh?

Offline kalospiano

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #59 on: March 22, 2016, 08:51:01 AM
Hi 1piano4joe. Hope you're not still sour about that accident with trollbuster. I, for one, enormously appreciate all the feedback that you've given in this thread and I do hope that you'll keep advising me if and when I'll post new stuff on the forum.

Thanks for your post, dcstudio. I, with my almost 31 years of age, I'm not really a new-timer myself, and for sure I see the difference between all the online material I'm able to access now that I'm playing the piano compared to what I had when playing the bass as a teen. There's a downside, I believe, to this abundance of resources: I find it to be a little bit overwhelming. Burgmuller, abrsm, rcm, trinity, various books on graded repertory, millions of different exercises... What to do first? How to handle everything? That's actually one more reason why I need a teacher: to get some guidance across this musical jungle.

Hi reiyza. It depends. I used to divide my sessions in various sections: one for reviewing old repertory, one for new repertory, one for scales, one for exercises, one for reading, etc. Sometimes I would set a timer of 30 or 60 minutes, and practice one section until the timer beeped. After the beep, I would have to pass to the next session. I normally would put reading and repertory at the beginning of my sessions. Now I don't use the timer anymore, but maybe I should. I just play my repertory until I feel that I've done everything I should, and then I go on to the next session. Meaning that sometimes I have very little time left, if at all, for playing scales and exercises. What's your practice routine like?

Thanks keypeg for taking the time to answer me. I do feel that some of your criticism supposes that a student following that video is a total beginner. You may probably not believe it, but I do recognize a change of key or what a 10th interval is, or what the difference between major, minor melodic, minor harmonic and minor natural scale is, so, even if I would probably figure it out myself, I wouldn't mind if my teacher explained all that before starting playing. I totally agree that the explanations about how the piece should be played are not really clear, but that probably goes to show that the online tutorial is no match for a real person being present there with you while you play. Of course I was only comparing the style of teaching, not the worth of an online tutorial compared to an actual teacher.
I cannot hide my surprise for your suggestion that 3 hours should be filled with just one piece, one scale and one arpeggio. How would you suggest going about that? One hour and a half on the piece, 45 minutes on one single scale and 45 minutes on one single arpeggio? Honestly, I'm pretty sure that I would burn out very soon if I applied a similar schedule, and I need to adjust my practice in such a way to make it sustainable for me. In the past three days I've memorized exactly half of the Solfeggietto (as I said I'm not great with sight reading and I prefer memorizing) and I've practiced the one scale and the one arpeggio. PLUS a review of all the burgmuller I've done, other old pieces and some other scales and arpeggios and some sight reading practice. I feel that if I tried to memorize more of the Solfeggietto the whole thing would get messy in my head, so I prefer to take it slow.
But yes, as you said, the teacher said to be particularly careful of the wrist movement and of thumb movement while practicing the scale and arpeggio, so that's what I'm concentrating on when I study that.
PS: it's true that a quote from Mozart is not really that much historical background. If you or anyone else were to advise a good book on the history of classical music, I would really appreciate that.
PPS: I maintain that doing is not the only way to investigate something. In the example of my French teacher, checking beforehand on a forum of french speaking people or even watching a French movie (didn't have the internete back then, sigh) would have avoided me 5 years of wrong teachings.
PPPS: I think shotglass was just being funny ;D

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #60 on: March 22, 2016, 01:51:37 PM
Kalospiano, while you may know what an interval etc. is, this "lesson" is being created for students with unknown abilities and knowledge, and I see nothing in there that makes allowances for that.  But above all, I see nothing in that entire video that would help me play the piece as a student, or improve my actual playing ability - and to me that last part is what I personally identify as the number one thing one wants to get from a music teacher.

All that aside, the real question was about your present teacher, with whom you have had a single lesson.  The on-line teacher was shown as a contrast, against which your teacher might be "not as good", and on that account I believe the opposite is true.  The reason I say that is because your teacher was responsive to you as a student by going with your interest (one of the pieces in your list), zeroed in on the one that would help you grow and addressed the needs he saw in your playing.

Btw, I've also been burned as a student.  When I switched to piano and had to be on my own, I started looking into what teaching is about, what learning is about, and went about it rather intensely.  That is why I have rather definite but broad thoughts about it.  There are a few somewhat intense years behind what I write.

I'll write you a PM. :)

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #61 on: March 22, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Re: History of classical music:

I'll tell you what I've been using but also how I have been studying it.  The book was recommended by a teacher in another forum.   
https://books.wwnorton.com/books/webad.aspx?id=4294977603
The cover looks different so I don't know if it's the same.

When I started to study, I quickly realized how poorly history and geography had been taught.  When it starts with Mesopotamia, I had no idea about this geographically or historically. I made full use of the Internet and made my studies as rich as possible.  So if an historical instrument was mentioned, I looked it up, listened to it.  If a king or a country was mentioned within a time period, ditto.  Where there were musical examples, I played them, studied them, found examples on the Internet.  I sort of "milked" the book.  I got up to "Classical" btw.

There are also "coursera" courses.  There was one giving an overview of Western music given by a Yale professor.  I'm not sure how I would have felt had I not already done those studies ahead of time.  There's another coursera course on Beethoven which goes very much in depth.  You could fill up more than 3 hours easily with any of them.

And then you can simply look up CPE Bach, find write-ups, lectures, examples, comparisons.  You can probably also go "solfeggieto + analysis".

Offline kalospiano

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #62 on: March 22, 2016, 04:46:13 PM
seems like quite a hefty book ;D 1200 pages! Must be extremely detailed, and even covers some jazz, which I like. But maybe I'll begin with something a bit lighter ;D  the coursera classes are actually a great idea, I didn't think about that. Maybe I'll give this one a chance:
https://www.coursera.org/learn/introclassicalmusic
And also, yes, I could simply look on google for info about the structure and the characteristics of the pieces I'm study. Sometimes the simplest solution is also the most effective :) Thanks for the tips, and thanks for the pm.
Cheers!

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #63 on: March 23, 2016, 01:55:19 AM
seems like quite a hefty book ;D 1200 pages! Must be extremely detailed, and even covers some jazz, which I like. But maybe I'll begin with something a bit lighter ;D  the coursera classes are actually a great idea, I didn't think about that. Maybe I'll give this one a chance:
https://www.coursera.org/learn/introclassicalmusic
I took that course.  If you think that a condensed version of such a vast topic is "lighter" then I wish you the best of luck. :)

Offline keypeg

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #64 on: March 24, 2016, 03:06:13 PM
Elucidating on this comment - I was in a hurry.
I took that course.  If you think that a condensed version of such a vast topic is "lighter" then I wish you the best of luck.
The course mentioned is a condensed version of a semester-long course that is given by the professor at Yale, but reduced to the few weeks for which the Coursera course is formatted.  Some Coursera courses have an open timing - you can go as fast or slow as you want, and do the course when you want.  Others have deadlines for assignments etc.  So the course proposes to teach the ENTIRE history of Western music within a tiny space of time to students who may have no background in music whatsoever.  To even begin teaching it, students have to be given a crash course in some basics of music theory - not just memorized things, but a sufficient understanding of concepts - so that they will be able to understand how Western music evolved.  Those of us who had that background were fine.  We tended to help these others with their questions, and it was a tough haul for them.

There is also a textbook recommended for that course, which is as big as the Grout one that I recommended.  It's about as pricey as mine.  I did not buy it because I didn't have much money and also I already had my Grout.  Reference is made to that text book, and it's recommended for students to read the chapters.

Because everything is condensed into a short period of time, and students may not have a background that would help make things more clear, parts of the course were quite tough going for some.  If given a choice between a fat book of a 1,000 pages, and a 6 or so week course on the same material, I would find the fat book --- studied over a few years a bit at a time --- preferable and easier.  When I took the Yale coursera course, it became a review, a chance to see other viewpoints and other students' questions, and that vastly enriched the whole thing for me.

Offline kalospiano

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #65 on: March 28, 2016, 01:25:37 PM
Thanks Keypeg. At the moment I actually haven't been able to check neither of the two because if I have some spare time I prefer to sit at the piano. Probably the book format would indeed be better as I could read a bit at night in bed before sleeping. I was considering these other two slightly less hefty books as well
https://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Guide-Classical-Music/dp/0679728058/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459170407&sr=1-5&keywords=history+classical+music
https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Music-Greatest-Composers-Their/dp/0449910423/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1459170407&sr=1-1&keywords=history+classical+music
Or also I could check some of the local libraries here in my town. I'll think about it.

Offline jgallag

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #66 on: March 28, 2016, 02:16:54 PM
Kalos, I don't want to be rude, but I have to insist that you edit your original post. It grossly misrepresents the series, which is disrespectful to Clarfield. The series is also edited by Phyllis Lehrer. I assure you she has contributed significantly to the books. The two are very much partners and friends, and Lehrer has had her fair share of competition winners as well.

You are not intended to go straight to book two after only having studied the Arabesque, The Bear, and Chinese Figurine. The Bear and Chinese Figurine are two of the easiest pieces in book one. Besides, the book has much more to offer. The Wild Rider, the Eccosaises, and some beautiful easier Baroque works. In addition, each book is organized by musical period, not by difficulty. Alfred Pub Co has a lot to do with the order in which the pieces are presented within each period as well. A teacher is intended to guide you through each book. I cannot fathom where you got your order of pieces, but it does not reflect the intended order of study except in the very basic fashion that the pieces are grouped in order of which book they appear.

Also, you should know about the intention of the series. Lehrer and Clarfield teach a graduate course called Intermediate Teaching Repertoire, which is structured around a Top 40 pieces you should know how to teach. They've also presented this list in lectures, and received many requests to publish such a collection. They decided to do their Top 100. These 100 are loosely grouped into five levels of difficulty. However, they also understand that difficulty and progression are deeply personal. I assure you they do not sit there with their own students going through piece by piece. So you need to understand that *you* put the Maple Leaf Rag after Fantasie-Impromptu, not Clarfield and Lehrer. And yes, FI is more difficult, but in a sense it is comparing apples and oranges. Nobody would confuse the technical challenges of FI and MLR as being similar. A student might be a whiz at fast passage work, but sloppy and inaccurate at stride bass with no feel for syncopation (though one would hope they studied Golliwog's Cakewalk earlier). In this case, Maple Leaf Rag would be harder.

Finally, Clarfield and Lehrer are currently at work on a series of study guides to accompany Classics for the Developing Pianists. Books 1 and 2 are finished and printed (book 2 done last week!) and after they finish their presentations at the upcoming MTNA conference, book 3 will be in the works. I apologize if I was rude, but these ladies have done, and continue to do, way too much for me to let your post stand without a defense.

Offline kalospiano

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Re: opinion on practice schedule
Reply #67 on: March 28, 2016, 02:37:34 PM
Hi jgallag.
You definitely didn't sound rude to me :) but I did say multiple times that the list is not the only thing I'm following, so you need take into account the tree collections of etudes by Burgmuller that I intend to complete and the ABRSM syllabus pieces.
I've tried to write down another list, which is still by no means complete or correct in the order and needs a lot of adjustment, but at the moment it goes like this:


***Clementi   Arietta: Lesson 5 from Op. 42
***Neefe  Allegretto in C
***Bartók Children at Play: No. 1 from For Children
***Gurlitt  Das Schaukelpferd (The Rocking Horse)
Ponchielli   Dance of the Hours (from La Gioconda), arr. Bullard.
***Kaneda  Gachou no Koushin (March of the Geese)
L. Mozart   Allegro in D
Vitalij Neugasimov   Lullaby
The Bear (Rebikov)
Chinese Figurine (Rebikov)
First Gymnopedie (Satie)
***Solfeggietto (C.P.E. Bach)
Prelude in C Major, BWV 846 (J. S. Bach)
Carroll   A Stormy Coast: No. 7 from  In Southern Seas
Franklyn Gellnick   Moody Prawn Blues
Sonata in C Major, K. 545 (III) (W. A. Mozart)
Sonatina in C Major, Op. 36, No. 1 (Clementi)
About Foreign Lands and People, Op. 15, No. 1 (Schumann)
***Fur Elise, WoO 59 (Beethoven)
J. S. Bach   Invention No. 1
J. S. Bach   Invention No. 6
D. C. Glover    Indian Pony Race
Chopin - Waltz in A Minor
Invention No. 8 in F Major, BWV 779 (J. S. Bach)
Invention No. 13 in A Minor, BWV 784 (J. S. Bach)
Evelien Vis  60s Swing: No. 1 from  Swinging Rhythms
Le petit negre (Debussy)
Sonata in C Major, K. 545 (I) (W. A. Mozart)
Cramer - Etude Op 60 n 12
Scott Joplin - The Entertainer
J. S. Bach  Sinfonia No. 11 in G minor, BWV 797
Mingxin Du and Zuqiang Wu    Shui Cao Wu (The Dance of Watergrass): 3rd movt from The Mermaid Suite
Arabesque No. 1 (Debussy)
Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum (Debussy)
Golliwog's Cakewalk (Debussy)
Sonata in C-sharp Minor ("Moonlight"), Op. 27, No. 2 (I) (Beethoven)
Czerny - School Of Velocity Etude n 9
Nocturne in E-flat Major, Op. 9, No. 2 (Chopin)
***Sonata in A Major, K. 331 (III: "Rondo alla Turca") (W. A. Mozart)
Clair de lune (Debussy)
J. S. Bach    Prelude and Fugue in C minor, BWV 847
Chabrier   Habanera
Chopin: Prelude, Op.28 No.22
Fantaisie-Impromptu, Op. 66 (Chopin)
Bach: Fugue in D major from 'Well-Tempered Clavichord'
Sonata in C Minor ("Pathetique"), Op. 13 (Beethoven)  (II)


I repeat: the list is just a work in progress.
Also, as you can see I'm not really following the order. After finishing the Solfeggietto, my teacher gave me the Sonatina in C by Clementi as an assignment for the next time. This is at this point more a collection of pieces that I would like to play rather than a progressive order list, and there are many many pieces missing.
The Burgmuller etudes are not included but I still play them (op 100 number 9 is my next objective).
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