Rachmaninov, Etude tableau op 33 n 8 in G minor

[costicina]

Still need to polish many spots, especially the runs...I’ve experimented faster tempos, but at the end, this very moderato ‘moderato’ is the one  I like the most for this piece.
Needless to say, any comment, advice, criticism will be very precious to me...

[49410enrique]

what a great joy it was to watch you play this with such ease, you have a strong command of this piece and it shows in the fluidity of your movements. you show very good musical planning and above all you seemed to stay relaxed throughout. i like this tempo i think if you speed it up any it should be only slightly and even then just in spots so long as you settle back into this one.

if i can make only one suggestion (it is difficult to when so much great stuff going on), it would be in aproach (i do not have a score infront so no 'nit picky stuff' i just don't see any place where i would even want to look for tiny details like that), it would be to wach your 'hand elevation' above the keys, it might work a little better for you to begin playing  certain notes/passage with your fingers already on the surface, again this is just observational from a  first viewing but i might experiment with in places where you have time to 'prepare' the release more you might find better control and a different tone. but this is only a how to try something to make it different not neccessarily better, i liked it very much as is and am left smiling.

[costicina]

Thank you for listening and for your nice comment, Enrique!!!! I'll try to implement your suggestion to 'prepare' what's going next with my hands (I think I undesrstand what you mean). I like very much this piece, and I whish I could play it like I feel it!!!

[birba]

Prima le coscie.  Mo abbiamo pure il petto!!
Kidding aside, that was really nice.  You could make it nicer if you differentiate the melodic line from the harmonic line.  that is, when you have the succession of notes that denote the harmony, do it on a much more subdued level - even with a dimunendo if you have the pedal.  This is what's going to create the "atmosphere".  Then those chords will project even more.
And tune the piano!   

[keyb0ardfweak]

Hi costicina,

First of all I admire that you've memorized the whole piece and played it by heart.
I would sugest you as the comment above me, to mark even more the melody separating it from the harmony, give the melody a direction, in every melody there is this kind of "climax", it is like when you sing, you don't sing plain everytime, that would lack, as we call it, emotion. I sugest you sing more the melody specially near the end, the melody is like a lament, sadness and anger, and it seems that it will fade away, but no!There's a scale at the end, a crescendo will make it interesting, try changing the pedal in this part every four notes, BUT, don't exagerate it, lift the pedal slowly because if not, the sound will be lost and the atmosphere created will dissappear
Secondly, the part where you play the scales (not the ending) try not to mark the last note, emphasize the first note (not too much) and try to think of this when you play that part, that the other notes that you play come from the first note that you play, as if they where an echo of the first one.
Finally, tune your piano =P,, I hope I have been of help and I hope to see soon your improvements

[costicina]

Thank you so much for listening and for your wise suggestion. I'm aware that I need to work at he 'layering' of voices, i.e. harmony and melodic line. Now it sounds somehow 'flat', in spite of its intrinsic dramatic character. I hope to post soon an improved version....

P.S. Birba, la prossima volta ti prometto che mi vesto da suora  ...

[candlelightpiano]

Marg, that was lovely.  First time I've heard it, of course, but such a nostalgic melody in both hands, especially in the left hand which sounds like a sad cello.  The ending run reminded me of the ending of one of the Chopin pieces.  Just don't ask me which one it was!     I know so little about piano music it's embarrassing!  Actually, I know very little about everything ...except you played this piece beautifully and you have on such a sexy little black dress!!  Yeah, I'd like to see you dressed like a nun next time!  You'll make a beautiful nun, even in a habit!

[costicina]

Thank you, Choo!! And I must say you have a fine ear: in fact the  G minor scala at the end recurs also in the final of Chopin Ballade op 23....

[starstruck5]

I found that incredibly moving -haven't heard that etude for many years -I think Ogdon was the last person I heard play it -but over time you lose the memory of the finer details and all you are left with is a mournful  ghost -something fleeting -yet I don't think his rachmaninoff moved me as much as yours -it was too easy for him -and there is something so fragile in this music -that not getting it technically perfect -as Birba says adds to the experience- I  even closed my eyes and that took some doing - given that you are wearing a sexy black dress! Please don't dress up as a nun though as Choo says -

[costicina]

Thank you so much, Starstruck, for such a kind, encouraging comment on my performance!!! I like so much this Etude, and I want to have it in my tiny repertoire, keeping on polishing it with love and care...
As for my (riculous?) 'sexy' black dress, maybe you'll forgive me if I confess that getting 'dressed up' when I play gives me the illusion of a 'real' performance, an experience that I avoid since I re-started, being too shy to play in public.
Anyway don't worry about the noon outfit: our ex leader Berlusconi has grabbed all of them for his countless  escorts

 I think plain jeans and a black T-shirt will be from now on my 'performance outfit'. Contento, Birba?

[johnmar78]

very good palying Costica, I enjoyed it very much. This particular music suits VERY well. A very clean articulation.

[49410enrique]

 I think plain jeans and a black T-shirt will be from now on my 'performance outfit'. Contento, Birba?

i thought the overall reception to your 'chopette' outfits was overwhelminly positive, i think the confidence it gives you comes through in your playing.  unless you're more confident in jeans and such in which case have it girl.

[costicina]

I'm going to post another Rach piece (with the piano tuned this time): oh!, the 'Chopette outfit' would be perfect  ...  but since I'm a woman of honour, I'll keep my promise...
Anyway, thank you Enrique, you are a treasure 

[tril]

There is something missing in this, is it the pedal?? is the piano out of tune? there's something wrong

[costicina]

The piano was out of tune, I guess.....

[danhuyle]

And I thought the Chopin G minor Ballade was the only piece that used the ascending G melodic in 10th.

I haven't played any Rachmaninov pieces, you have what it takes to play this etude.

Now that you can play it from memory, I would play with the book and start looking at the interpretation side of things. You could do so much more with the left hand and creating some sort of phrase out of it like you do in Chopin Etude 10/12. Could you imagine what it's like if you kept the left hand in the same dynamic? Same thing applies in this Rachmaninov Etude.

Look forward to another recording of this etude.

[costicina]

Thank you, Dan,
dynamics and expression are 90% of this Etude (I suppose that it's true of every piece, but of this in particular). I'll keep on 'ironing' it...

[tril]

nice legs and boobs

[rachfan]

Hi Marg,

I just listened to this rendition, and note that it is coming along in many ways.  

I have the very same impression as birba though--the accompaniment is often coming out of the background to challenge, interfere with and even submerge  the melody in the foreground.  This happens in both hands, because when the melodic line is transferred briefly at times to the left hand, the right hand then tries to compete with it and to wrest control.  As I listen, there are instances (not all the time) were the left hand is more of a polyphonic counter melody than accompaniment per se, so those intertwining melodies can legitimately be brought out as if in a duet.  But normally the left hand is purely quieter accompaniment.

Here is what I would do at this point, Marg: Establish the melody!  To do this, forget almost all the notation on the score. Only focus on, isolate and play the melody notes--no accompaniment whatsoever. Play the long melodic line by itself, and if there is a hand-off from the RH or the LH, include those brief transitions into the playing of the long melodic line.  Play it from beginning to end, several times to firmly ingrain it into your mind and fingers.  No pedal!  None.  Concentrate not only on the  notes of the line, but play them legato, piu, piu legato with the fingers and the rest of the playing apparatus. Pedal will only be a distraction from the main task here.  

Once you've done this, you'll know at all times what is in the foreground, and what is to be subordinated into the background.  Then as you play the piece, using differentiated dynamics, project and protect the melody at all times!  If you are playing the melody at f, then the accompaniment will be mf unless the score calls for something else.  If the melody is mp, then the accompaniment will be p at most. The way to do this well is never to make the melody louder.  That only invites the accompaniment to be louder too. To the contrary, always lower the accompaniment instead.  Then the melody will naturally soar over it by itself with no extra work on your part.

Once you've accomplished the above, then carefully examine the bass for strategic or "purple patch" harmonies and polyphonic counter melodies that are points of interest for the listener, and deserving a little more of the lime light, and bring them out accordingly, but afterward let the bass subside into more quietly serving the melody again.  

Lastly, listen very very carefully to your pedaling.  There were some blurs and smudges in there.  A clean pedal will give you clarity of line.  For pedaling, let your ears be the High Court every second that you're playing.  

I hope this helps.  

David    

[costicina]

Your suggestions, David, are as always very thoughtful and useful, and help me so much to "understand" the musical structure of a piece. The scomposition in layers is a great idea, I'll do it re-writing the score, if necessary.
I'm really thankful to you, for your patience and the time you dedicate to share your wisdom.
I'll do my best to deserve it!!!!!

[rachfan]

Hi Marg,

I'm glad to give suggestions.  Where you're so conscientious, the pleasure is all mine.

Something else I noticed last night is that you're sitting high at the piano.  (I realize that both you and costicina use the bench, but if it's adjustable, it would be worth taking a moment to adjust it to best suit you.)  If it's adjustable, try lowering it until your forearms are level and parallel to the floor.  Right now they're angled downward from your upper arms.  The higher you sit, the drier the sound.  I hope you'll give that a reasonable trial. Keeping your forearms and wrists level avoids up-flexing of the wrists.  If you dislike it, you can always change back again. 

David    

[emill]

Dear Marg,

I was in "listening and watching mode" for this post of yours for quite a while now; however I must admit that for the 1st few times, instead of your playing, I became "distracted" and started "hating" myself for being so physically unfit and lazy to focus on exercise .. that is after admiring how fit the headless pianist is!!    It has only been the last few days that I realized how well you have progressed into this expressive piece if this is still a work in progress. Thanks for the inspiration to "get my b_tt off this chair and start running in earnest!!!!!

btw, another good input for my "piano education" is the wealth of musical info I get through the comments posted. 

emill

x.x.x.. you have on such a sexy little black dress!!  Yeah, I'd like to see you dressed like a nun next time!  You'll make a beautiful nun, even in a habit!

Oh GOD forbid!!!  it will not suite this very romantic sounding Rach, methinks. 

[costicina]

Thank you, Emill!!!
This forum was and is the best teacher I've ever had...and gave me the chance to meet wonderful persons, and to acquire true friends  !!!!!