Beethoven's Choral Fantasy

[BoliverAllmon]

what are your thoughts on this piece?

boliver

[pianonut]

i'd rather just hear the end portion of the 9th symphony, but the choral fantasy reminds me of busoni's piano concerto.  it's very disjointed.  i'd rather hear the 'emperor concerto' then the ninth symphony.  symphony and chorale is ok but piano symphony and chorale (they are all fighting one another for attention) is too much!

[BoliverAllmon]

i'd rather just hear the end portion of the 9th symphony, but the choral fantasy reminds me of busoni's piano concerto.  it's very disjointed.  i'd rather hear the 'emperor concerto' then the ninth symphony.  symphony and chorale is ok but piano symphony and chorale (they are all fighting one another for attention) is too much!

I felt that the choir was just put there in the end for no real reason. Just something extra to do. Not worth hiring a choir in my opinion. beginning was nice though.

boliver

[pianonut]

the beginning makes me think that for one brief moment, beethoven was trying to be mozart and writing little clips that variously are snatched by instruments or piano.  it is so disjointed - i feel disabled when i listen to it (despite immensely loving other things beethoven wrote).

[apion]

It's one of the few pieces by Beethoven that I don't appreciate.  I saw it performed live, and that didn't help my already low esteem for it.  Don't know what else to tell you.   

[Tash]

i heard it for the first time about a month ago at the sydney symphony gala thingo and i quite liked it because i like mishing choirs with orchestral works and it reminded me of the 9th symphony, and the addition of the piano just made it even cooler. however i would agree that the choir could've done with a bigger part, being a 'choral' fantasy and all. but i love the text! hmm might go find a recording of it and have another listen cos it was like 11pm and i was slowly falling asleep so i'm sure i had great judgment skills at the time

[TheHammer]

I really love that one! You call it disjointed, but hey, it's a fantasy! I read somewhere, when Beethoven performed it first time he had not even thought about a beginning (it was the day his 5 & 6 symphony, his fourth pc, parts of the C-Major Mass and the aria "Ah perfido!" would be performed, he was quite busy one would imagine), so, he improvised the grand introduction! I am not quite sure this was exactly the one we have nowadays but anyway.

I quite agree on the choir, a bit too short, but I think it to be one of my favourite musical moments, when the choir comes in, sings his verses and the piano seems to make grimaces in the background to distract the listener from the singer, as how to say: "Look at me, look at me!" Listen to it, just lovely!

[Waldszenen]

Fantastic piece.

But not enough choir.

[Regulus Medtner]

It's a great piece that combines the piano, the orchestra and the final "apotheotic" choir in very fine taste. It's a fantasia after all, so why should it be as structurally coherent as a symphony or a concerto? The recent recording of Aimard/Harnoncourt is absolutely breathtaking.

[pianonut]

maybe i'll have to listen again, but i would think just the acoustic problems alone would cause difficulty.

i really liked the kimmel centers (actually temple university) production of mendelssohn's psalm 42. it was nice because all the singers were on risers that were adjusted so you saw the top half of each singer (not just their heads).  the blend was superb. (the soloists, chorus, orchestra, and organ were all in good balance - though i would have liked to see the two middle soloists look up across their music as much as the end two soloists).  i guess if the piano was in the right location for the beethoven choral fantasy and the symphony and piano watched their dynamics, you could pull it off and it would sound ok...but it must be VERY difficult to perform well.  you either have something really creative or something horrible.  there's not much in between.

the mendelssohn's men's choir is FANTASTIC, too (they sung in the busoni concerto).  having a great choir that blends is really something.  between the temple university singers the other night and the men's choir--i have never heard such good blend and precision in everything (they sing like one voice).

[pianonut]

ps  if the choral fantasy is performed, i think luis biava could pull it off. i was awe struck at how one person could conduct the symphony and the choir at the same time.  it was truly amazing!  how do people ever get that far in music?  have they lived three lifetimes?

[cygnusdei]

For the longest time I thought this piece was darn near impossible to perform properly, mainly because of the octave leap in the ".... frohdie Gaben, die Gaben schöner Kunst ....". In all of the recordings I heard the soprano (both soloist and choir) had to resort to appoggiatura-like sliding, i.e. B1-A1-G#2-A2 instead of B1-A1-A2. I had given up on finding a performance that does score justice.

Well guess what, it turns out that B1-A1-G#2-A2 is what it says in the score - at least one score that I saw. I still think it's weird, but this means the recordings are not slouching, but actually following the score.

[pianowolfi]

Whatever others may have said, I love that piece. 

[mikey6]

I actually find the variations a tad boring, but I love the finale with the choir.
Agreed, the a-g# is a pregnant dog - Beethoven as human afterall, he his vocal writing is not on par with some of the greats! (save the 9th which is rather effective- but very unkind on the singers = what sgall we do here? let's hold the soprano on a top a for 30 odd bars )

[burstroman]

I think it is fantastic!  It is not a balanced work with the long intro before the choir enters.  The melody is rather banal.  The piano is mainly filigree.  Nevertheless, the sum is much greater than the parts.

[lazlo]

I love it. It's beautiful. It was an improvisation by beethoven that he later orchestrated. And then later still based the famous "ode to joy" theme on in the 0th symphony. I love how spontaneous it feels.