Who was Beethoven's "eternal beloved"?

[pianowolfi]

I have read and seen (on tv) a lot of claims about it (I admit that I forgot almost everything about these) and I would like to see what everybody here knows about it. Pianistimo mentioned her and that gave me the association to ask this. Have your say

[allthumbs]

I don't know her name, but I saw alot of different pictures of her in another thread!   


allthumbs

[pianistimo]

maynard solomon believes it is antonie brentano - but bettina was pretty attractive to him wasn't she?  she introduced him to goethe.  (she was antonie's husband  - franz brentano's - half-sister).  wasn't she only 25 or so when she met beethoven?  speculation is that antonie met with beethoven for some kind of tryst on july3, ? whatever date -  but i believe that bettino knew a bit about beethoven right after she met him.  enough to write this to goethe on may 28, 1810:

'beethoven now has three flats, in which he hides in turn.  one in the country, one in the city, and one on the bastel.'  now how would she know that?  just speculation.  hmm.  have to see a pic of her. 

here's the site i was reading:

https://www.frugalfun.com/beethoven.html   

[pianistimo]

[pianistimo]

here's countess giuletta guicardi:

[pianistimo]

and antonia brentano:

[pianowolfi]

I don't know her name, but I saw alot of different pictures of her in another thread!   


allthumbs

could you link them?

[pianistimo]

and what about the known relationship between him and josephine von brunswick.  her aristocratic family didn't want them to get married, right?  so - did he pine away or what?  some say he was a latent homosexual and didn't really want a relationship inthe first place.  ihave no idea who it was.  just guessing bettina because she was young and just got to him.  and, his beloved antonie was dead set to marry franz bruening despite his advances toward her.  i bet he probably just said - 'what the heck - i'll make it bettina.'  perhaps out of jealous rage or who knows - maybe he liked her.  the pic i saw of antonie made me think he would be better off with bettina.  antonie was often sickly, too.  he would come and play for her - but her daughter didn't like it once because he got too carried away so she dumped a bucket of water on him.

ps who's pic was found in the drawer with the 'heligenstadt testament?'  was that antonie's?

ok.  here's my take.  beethoven was so used to taking care of his sick mother (who he truly did love - and i don't believe he was so full of the suppsed hatred of women - to every woman.  especially his mother).  he didn't like his nephew carl's mother - but that was it to me.  i think beethoven truly loved his own mother.  after all, he declined those lessons that he would have had from haydn to go back and take care of her didn't he?  so, antonie was the closest sickest person around.  it reminded beethoven of his ability to reach out and care for people despite his own sickness. he knew what it was like to be sick.  bettina wasn't sick - therefore she could care for beethoven like beethoven cared for antonie.  but, antonie needed him like noone else - so perhaps maynard solomon was right.  it was the sick lady.

[pianistimo]

or, could it be that schindler was right?  of course, he was writing in beethoven's own time and perhaps should be listened to.  he thought that it was giuletta guicciardi and that the 'K' referred to a town that she lived ?- and that the moonlight sonata was a good indication of beethoven's love towards her.  also, her picture was the one found in the drawer with the love letters to the 'eternal beloved' and heiligenstadt testament.

she was only 16 when she met him, i think.

[pianistimo]

https://www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/immortal.html  another point of view.

[amelialw]

was'nt there a Girl named Elise (or something like) that that he really loved.
They were not allowed to marry because her family felt that he was to poor and that he was'nt good enough for her.
That's why he wrote Fur Elise.

[pianowolfi]

Her name was Therese Malfatti and for sure she wasn't his immortal beloved, though he seemed to have been in love with her for a while. There are some common elements in the structure of "Für Elise" and op. 109, like the weaving of left and right hand in the first part of "Für Elise" and the first mvt. of op. 109. I once heard that that sonata was dedicated to the "immortal beloved" before he dedicated it to Maximiliane Brentano. That would mean Maynard Solomon was right.  

[allthumbs]

could you link them?

OK, but you asked for it!

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25688.0.html

[jlh]

OK, but you asked for it!

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25688.0.html

HAHA how did I know THAT was coming??   

[pianowolfi]

OK, but you asked for it!

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25688.0.html

ROFL see pianistimo that is what I mean with tragical/hilarious. Let's say I do believe in reincarnation and let's say I would be convinced to be the beloved of a woman who is reincarnated Beethoven ( I mean of course I don't say that's the case it's just an example of a very hilarious tragical joke) that would be the sorta laughing-because-of-crying thing that I like. (No I didn't smoke anything lol )