Teaching how to use the pedal

[prettypianoplaying]

How do any of you go about teaching a child how to use the right pedal?  What kinds of methods do you use so they learn how to use it properly?

[ame]

I just happened to see your question, and would recommend a new book published by FJH, "Pedal Technique", Vol. I, by Wynne-Anne Rossi. 
Here's a link to the FJH website for that:
https://www.fjhmusic.com/piano/pedal.htm

The music is at about mid to late elementary level.  I was really excited to find this book, as I'd been wanting something that boils pedal technique down to the very beginning, and builds from there.  There's even creative pieces that could be used in a recital throughout the book!

Just a note: my students LOVE to find out what each pedal does.  If you can, have them look inside a grand piano as you demonstrate exactly what each pedal does, instructing them about the dampers, for example, or how the una corda pedal shifts the hammers.  If they know precisely how each pedal works, that gives the foundation for starting to use them.

That didn't really answer your question directly, but those were two things that came to mind.  Look at the book, it would probably give you a great idea of how to proceed!

[lostinidlewonder]

Teach them to connect notes first. Ask them to play the notes with a stacatto quality but sustain them with the pedal. Play random notes or a particular form but get them to use the right pedal to connect the notes without overlapping them or breaking the sound.

After this I get them to play a piece with simple pedaling. Perhaps where the pedal is released and replaced every time the Lh plays its lowest note. At least something with a constant pedal. I find you have to target teaching the pedal in a number or ways, there was another discussion on this here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,6742.msg66419.html#msg66419

[dveej]

Two tricks for introducing pedal (overlapping pedal):

1) Teach a two-octave crossed-hands arpeggio in C Major. LH C E G RH C E G LH C
(No pedal yet). That was ascending. Then teach the same notes descending. Then put them both together, going up and down. Then have them play the whole thing with the pedal down.
It forces them to get the right notes, because with the pedal down, any wrong note in an arpeggio is going to sound really bad, and this will get them to start listening.

2) Teach a five-chord progression using common tone in C Major: (RH) C chord in root position; F chord in second inversion; C chord in root position; G7 chord in first inversion; C chord in root position. Then have the student play the first chord and hold it down with the fingers, and while holding the chord down, have them depress the damper pedal. Now, without lifting the pedal, have the student play the second chord and hold those fingers down. Both chords are now mixed together, which sounds "muddy". Now have the student, with the second chord's fingers still down, lift and depress the damper pedal, thus "clearing" the pedal of the first chord's tones. I have my students do this with each chord of the five-chord progression above. (I call that progression the "Grand Progression", which I got from Piano Adventures. It makes it easy for them to remember.)

Both of these tricks get the student to listen to what the pedal can do between notes or chords, rather than what most people do with the pedal when they are just messing around on the piano, which is: they think something like "Oooh! The pedal makes the tones last a long time and sound really cool!" but then they don't take it to the next step and really address all the cool things that the pedal can be used for.

I have gotten into a space where I only (almost) teach overlapping pedal. If they can get overlapping pedal, which is coordinating chord changes or note changes with the pedal, then they can do the easier kind of pedalling in which you are holding a chord down and you depress the damper pedal just for a moment, to help the sound out. That kind is much easier to do, because it doesn't have to have precise split-second timing.

[lauralouise]

Hello..my piano teacher just recently showed me how to use the pedal and i just cant get it ..i dunno why

[prettypianoplaying]

All these comments are great, but what I'm looking for is if any you of have a way for student to get used to the coordination of playing the chord first before changing the pedal to clear the muddy sound.

What's happening is that they change the pedal right before playing the next chord causing the music to have a break inbetween.  I find its really hard for them to get that coordination to play the next chord first and change the pedal almost at the same time.

This is very confusing to explain, and maybe there is no easier method for them to learn this except to play slowly and get used to it.

[abell88]

There was a discussion on this not too long ago, which you should be able to find with the search function.

Sometimes I have gotten down on the floor and moved the student's foot to help them. (I usually have them play a one-finger C scale and use the pedal to connect the sounds.)

[lagin]

Try explaining it like, "when the chord goes down the pedal comes up,"  and have them do it in slow motion.  I know that wasn't a big help.  I was 18 when I learned to use the pedal, so it was easier. 

[whynot]

Yes, what Lagin said.  I have the student say with me, "up-down," quickly while the hands go down, and those are the directions for the foot.  That's usually all I've had to do.  If the student is comfortable with me and not at an awkward age for this (like early-mid teen), I'll pedal with my own foot on top of his or hers.  I ask permission first! and explain what I'm going to do, and move the rest of myself farther away to lessen the intrusion a little.  But the up-down chant is my favorite and works very quickly.       

[ludwig]

Yeah I do the up-down chant too.... Another thing is you can show them what NOT to do, like how the harmony easily gets tangled up and becomes unclean, and then you show them why this occurs, and how it can be corrected, I like the chordal progression dveej suggested... Just remember to tell them that the pedal is not used to join anything when your fingers are too lazy, because they will have the habit of just lifting up and not sustaining a very important long not or chord... Show them that there is a very different tone quality with finger legato and pedal legato... Pedal is often used as an expressive device, sure it some times helps the hand if the reach is not wide enough, but try not to encourage use of pedal in everything at a young age.

[dveej]

When I first started teaching piano a million or so years ago, I hit on a way to get the students to pedal right: I told them that the pedal came up when the fingers went down. This however seemed to allow them to avoid listening to the way the pedal links the sounds, so I discarded it. Now I tell them that the pedal always happens AFTER the note. I make them play the first note or chord of a phrase, and only after they have depressed the keys do I allow them to depress the damper pedal. Then all subsequent changes of pedal must happen AFTER the notes or chords are changed. So for me, "Pedal happens AFTER the notes."
The only exception is at the end, when the fingers must come off the keys at the same time as the pedal is lifted. This prevents a sloppy habit of playing a final chord, pedaling it, and then taking your hands off the keys but allowing the sound to linger on by use of the damper pedal. This is a bad habit, because there is a slight but important difference between pedaling with keys depressed and pedaling with no keys depressed. It's a very subtle difference, but I think it's important. So I make them lift fingers and pedal together at the end of a phrase.
In almost all other situations, though, "pedal happens after notes."

[dveej]

Actually, what I meant to say in my last post was:
There is a slight but important difference between playing notes with the damper pedal depressed, and playing notes with the damper pedal not depressed. The damper pedal allows more overtones from other strings to resonate in sympathy with the strings of the keys that are being played. So it's not a good idea to allow students to use the pedal as a means of prolonging tones. They should always focus on using the pedal to enhance the tone quality, which is what it is really a great invention for. Prolonging the tones by using the damper pedal while you do other things with your hands, like comb your hair or something, is not thoughtful sound-consciious playing. So for me, "pedal and fingers come up together at the end" of a phrase or a piece.