Szymanowski

[CATFANNY]

Do anyone know any about Szymanowski? Actually I just start playing his Etude op.4 no.3 and I just want to know more about him.

THx alot!

Fanny

[pianowelsh]

His op 4 etudes were written when he was really young and relatively unschooled. Show a leaning towards scriabin and chopin but with remeniscences of Brahms in the phrasing and doubled notes and also sometimes Debussy in clarity and spacing of chords.
Im learning no1!

[pianowelsh]

people dont seem to know much about him - see my post re op4 etudes. If you find any good books/sources on him let me know.. I'll do likewise.

[jre58591]

check here for some general info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szymanowski

i absolutely love his 2nd sonata, which is one of the most furious pieces ive ever heard. also, his mazurkas are worth looking at. theyre nothing like chopin's, but still interesting and nice to listen to and study.

[nepenthean]

Unless you've heard/played his Metopes, Masques, Etudes op.33, Mazurkas or 3rd Sonata, you don't know Szymanowski.

[indutrial]

Unless you've heard/played his Metopes, Masques, Etudes op.33, Mazurkas or 3rd Sonata, you don't know Szymanowski.

Being a huge chamber music nerd, I've always loved his Mythes for violin and piano and his two string quartets. Szymanowski was massively important to the whole of Polish music, as he was one of the first composers from that country to extensively absorb and transmit influences of Western composers like Debussy and Ravel, not to mention loads of other musical flavors from the Mediterranean and North Africa and a crapton of ideas from his own country's folk roots (listen to his fabulous books of Mazurkas), which he gained from spending time in the Polish mountain country. His style, somewhat reminiscent of Scriabin's career arc, shows an increased adoption of free-tonal qualities. Unlike Scriabin, Szymanowski's comes from a mixed marriage of Polish folk harmony, exotic chromatic colorings, etc... Like Scriabin, the emotion is right in your face and pretty intense!

His approach to composing and studying/teaching music also had a lasting influence on lots of excellent (mostly unknown) composers from Poland's first half-century (despite heavy romantic conservatism from his peers at the conservatory), which, interestingly enough, concluded with the elderly Szymanowski attending a young Witold Lutoslawski's first piano sonata premiere in the mid-1930s (I think) and liking the piece very much. Since Lutoslawski went on to become one of Poland's most important composers, it is noteworthy to cite that Szymanowski's influence meant a lot to him in his formative years.

Another interesting composer who Szymanowski influenced was Jozef Koffler, a Jewish-Polish composer who is said to be the only Polish composer to use twelve-tone techniques before WWII (although I'd argue that Tansman was damned close in the 1920s before he left for Paris). Koffler's legacy was unfortunately cut short when he disappeared into the jaws of the Nazi crusade, killed with his family. Several of his works have since vanished but the few that remain are quite excellent, including his op. 8 piano piece 'Quasi un sonata' dedicated to Szymanowski.

Having spent a lot of time specifically studying Poland's great and severely conflict-laden 20th century output, Szymanowski, to me, is frankly a warhorse, much the way Kodaly and Bartok are warhorses in Hungary and Sibelius is in Finland.  I would wholeheartedly recommend listening to pretty much everything you can find by him, especially his middle and later works. Definitely a favorite of mine.

[ahinton]

Being a huge chamber music nerd, I've always loved his Mythes for violin and piano and his two string quartets. Szymanowski was massively important to the whole of Polish music, as he was one of the first composers from that country to extensively absorb and transmit influences of Western composers like Debussy and Ravel, not to mention loads of other musical flavors from the Mediterranean and North Africa and a crapton of ideas from his own country's folk roots (listen to his fabulous books of Mazurkas), which he gained from spending time in the Polish mountain country. His style, somewhat reminiscent of Scriabin's career arc, shows an increased adoption of free-tonal qualities. Unlike Scriabin, Szymanowski's comes from a mixed marriage of Polish folk harmony, exotic chromatic colorings, etc... Like Scriabin, the emotion is right in your face and pretty intense!

His approach to composing and studying/teaching music also had a lasting influence on lots of excellent (mostly unknown) composers from Poland's first half-century (despite heavy romantic conservatism from his peers at the conservatory), which, interestingly enough, concluded with the elderly Szymanowski attending a young Witold Lutoslawski's first piano sonata premiere in the mid-1930s (I think) and liking the piece very much. Since Lutoslawski went on to become one of Poland's most important composers, it is noteworthy to cite that Szymanowski's influence meant a lot to him in his formative years.

Another interesting composer who Szymanowski influenced was Jozef Koffler, a Jewish-Polish composer who is said to be the only Polish composer to use twelve-tone techniques before WWII (although I'd argue that Tansman was damned close in the 1920s before he left for Paris). Koffler's legacy was unfortunately cut short when he disappeared into the jaws of the Nazi crusade, killed with his family. Several of his works have since vanished but the few that remain are quite excellent, including his op. 8 piano piece 'Quasi un sonata' dedicated to Szymanowski.

Having spent a lot of time specifically studying Poland's great and severely conflict-laden 20th century output, Szymanowski, to me, is frankly a warhorse, much the way Kodaly and Bartok are warhorses in Hungary and Sibelius is in Finland.  I would wholeheartedly recommend listening to pretty much everything you can find by him, especially his middle and later works. Definitely a favorite of mine.

Wholly endorsed by me! (except that he deserves better than the term "warhorse"!)...

Best,

Alistair

[retrouvailles]

Being a huge chamber music nerd, I've always loved his Mythes for violin and piano and his two string quartets. Szymanowski was massively important to the whole of Polish music, as he was one of the first composers from that country to extensively absorb and transmit influences of Western composers like Debussy and Ravel, not to mention loads of other musical flavors from the Mediterranean and North Africa and a crapton of ideas from his own country's folk roots (listen to his fabulous books of Mazurkas), which he gained from spending time in the Polish mountain country. His style, somewhat reminiscent of Scriabin's career arc, shows an increased adoption of free-tonal qualities. Unlike Scriabin, Szymanowski's comes from a mixed marriage of Polish folk harmony, exotic chromatic colorings, etc... Like Scriabin, the emotion is right in your face and pretty intense!

His approach to composing and studying/teaching music also had a lasting influence on lots of excellent (mostly unknown) composers from Poland's first half-century (despite heavy romantic conservatism from his peers at the conservatory), which, interestingly enough, concluded with the elderly Szymanowski attending a young Witold Lutoslawski's first piano sonata premiere in the mid-1930s (I think) and liking the piece very much. Since Lutoslawski went on to become one of Poland's most important composers, it is noteworthy to cite that Szymanowski's influence meant a lot to him in his formative years.

Another interesting composer who Szymanowski influenced was Jozef Koffler, a Jewish-Polish composer who is said to be the only Polish composer to use twelve-tone techniques before WWII (although I'd argue that Tansman was damned close in the 1920s before he left for Paris). Koffler's legacy was unfortunately cut short when he disappeared into the jaws of the Nazi crusade, killed with his family. Several of his works have since vanished but the few that remain are quite excellent, including his op. 8 piano piece 'Quasi un sonata' dedicated to Szymanowski.

Having spent a lot of time specifically studying Poland's great and severely conflict-laden 20th century output, Szymanowski, to me, is frankly a warhorse, much the way Kodaly and Bartok are warhorses in Hungary and Sibelius is in Finland.  I would wholeheartedly recommend listening to pretty much everything you can find by him, especially his middle and later works. Definitely a favorite of mine.

If this were GFF, I would prop this post so hard.

[indutrial]

Wholly endorsed by me! (except that he deserves better than the term "warhorse"!)...

Best,

Alistair

I must have been thinking of the Arditti String Quartet's early Gramaphone record, wherein they call Bartok's fourth quartet a warhorse among 20th century pieces. For some reason, the stupid term stuck!

[slobone]

His piano music was much championed by Arthur Rubinstein, who premiered many of the pieces. I don't know how much of it he recorded. It was almost the only modern music he played.

[dnephi]

My favorite Szymanowski is the first movement of the 2nd piano sonata. 

Aside from that, the Mazurkas are fine specimen, worthy of Chopin.

[indutrial]

His piano music was much championed by Arthur Rubinstein, who premiered many of the pieces. I don't know how much of it he recorded. It was almost the only modern music he played.

Did Rubinstein play any of Tansman's piano pieces. I know that some of the composer's Etudes, his set of eight Cantilenas, and his 2nd and 3rd piano sonatas (awesome, by the way) are all dedicated to Rubenstein. If Rubenstein played any of this stuff, that would qualify as modern in the same sense as Szymanowski, albeit with less exoticism and more polytonal/jazz/Stravinsky flavor.

I think I have a few discs with Szymanowski and Tansman pieces sharing the programme. Off the top of my head, one of them is a Polish release with Szymanowski's Symphony Concertante for piano and orch, op. 60 (forgot to mention that one, but that work is AMAZING! It's considered Szymanowski's 4th symphony, even though it seems like a piano concerto. Incidentally, that was dedicated to Rubenstein also!) and Tansman's Suite for two pianos with orchestral accompaniment. It definitely makes an interesting contrast as one worked within the context of Poland's music scene after travelling the world and the other toured and composed all over the world as an emigre despite having grown up in Poland (he eventually returned).

Anyway, here's an interesting little article about Szymanowski's 4th Symphony....er...concerto......er..symphony?

https://www.culture.pl/en/culture/artykuly/dz_szymanowski_4_symfonia

[retrouvailles]

Did Rubinstein play any of Tansman's piano pieces. I know that some of the composer's Etudes, his set of eight Cantilenas, and his 2nd and 3rd piano sonatas (awesome, by the way) are all dedicated to Rubenstein. If Rubenstein played any of this stuff, that would qualify as modern in the same sense as Szymanowski, albeit with less exoticism and more polytonal/jazz/Stravinsky flavor.

I think I have a few discs with Szymanowski and Tansman pieces sharing the programme. Off the top of my head, one of them is a Polish release with Szymanowski's Symphony Concertante for piano and orch, op. 60 (forgot to mention that one, but that work is AMAZING! It's considered Szymanowski's 4th symphony, even though it seems like a piano concerto. Incidentally, that was dedicated to Rubenstein also!) and Tansman's Suite for two pianos with orchestral accompaniment. It definitely makes an interesting contrast as one worked within the context of Poland's music scene after travelling the world and the other toured and composed all over the world as an emigre despite having grown up in Poland (he eventually returned).

Anyway, here's an interesting little article about Szymanowski's 4th Symphony....er...concerto......er..symphony?

https://www.culture.pl/en/culture/artykuly/dz_szymanowski_4_symfonia

Thanks for this article. I have always loved this Szymanowski Symphony. I believe he actually called it a Symphony-Concertante because of how significant the piano part is.

[slobone]

His piano music was much championed by Arthur Rubinstein, who premiered many of the pieces. I don't know how much of it he recorded. It was almost the only modern music he played.

Actually, looking into it (which I should have done first) he recorded a lot of 20th century music -- Prokofiev, Granados, Villa-Lobos, Ravel, Albeniz, as well as Szymanowski. Can't find any recordings of Tansman.

The complete Szymanowski solo piano music has been recorded in 4 CD's by Sinae Lee:

https://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Nov06/Szymanowski_Lee_21400.htm

[indutrial]

Actually, looking into it (which I should have done first) he recorded a lot of 20th century music -- Prokofiev, Granados, Villa-Lobos, Ravel, Albeniz, as well as Szymanowski. Can't find any recordings of Tansman.

The complete Szymanowski solo piano music has been recorded in 4 CD's by Sinae Lee:

https://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Nov06/Szymanowski_Lee_21400.htm

I think I have the Martin Jones edition, which somehow made it onto 3 CDs and is budget-priced. I also have the Hamelin 'Complete Mazurkas' recording from Hyperion. Both items are great.

[retrouvailles]

There is a disk of Tansman's 2nd Piano Concerto coupled with the Szymanowski Symphony Concertante that is amazing and worth checking out. The coupling is great also. Marek Drewnowski is the pianist, if I remember correctly.

[dnephi]

What's the best recording of the Op. 33?

[indutrial]

There is a disk of Tansman's 2nd Piano Concerto coupled with the Szymanowski Symphony Concertante that is amazing and worth checking out. The coupling is great also. Marek Drewnowski is the pianist, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, I have that one as well. That version and the one I mentioned are both very good. Tansman's second concerto (which is dedicated to Charlie Chaplin) is probably the superior counterpart.

Just found this video today of Cuarteto Gianneo playing the Vivace scherzando movement from Szymanowski's 2nd quartet, op. 56 (composed in 1927):

Some relevant excerpts from the score's preface:

Like the first quartet, the second is closely aligned with classical formal models, but it goes much further into the new sounds and harmonies which Szymanowski had evolved in his cantatas (Stabat Mater) and in the mazurkas for piano. The presence of folk-music elements anticipates their use in the Fourth Symphony and the Second Violin Concerto ... The second movement is a Rondo linked with variation forms; its melody and rhythm are inspired by Gorale folk music, but only motives or melodic segments of folk music appear, and these are worked out in a free fashion. ...The second movement, in its rhythmic excitement, is particularly tinged by Szymanowski's "national" period. ... Composed in a period of neo-classicism, Szymanowski's two string quartets demonstrate that the classical tradition can be allied with a neo-romantic, even expressionistic, concept of sound without there being a break in style.

There are also a few Youtube videos (in sets of 3-4) of his first violin concerto, which precedes the above-mentioned "national" period and bears a little more similarity to Scriabin's sound world.

[nepenthean]

What's the best recording of the Op. 33?

Carol Rosenberger on Delos.

[fnork]

Szymanowski,a great composer indeed. Discovered his music quite recently, I must admit, but a good friend of mine is a great fan of him and will soon perform the "Sinfonia concertante" with the royal philharmony in stockholm. Apparently, the piano part is not so "solistic", but that doesn't mean that it's easy to play it!

[rachfan]

I can't speak to Tansman, but Rubinstein played a considerable amount of Villa Lobos, which was also still considered "modern music" at that time.

[composer]

I dont rlly know much but his 3rd sonata is the best

[roncesvalles]

Szymanowski is in my pantheon of favorite composers.  I like him mostly for his middle-period works, which have a tendency to be very lush, although not without irony or bitterness.  I also appreciate how he saw composition as a moral dilemma and sought to see music as something transcending personal perspectives--thus he strove to find a musical language that uplifted his country, taking the historical folk music of the Tatras as a seed from which his modern vision bloomed.  I don't prize his nationalistic works as much as his middle period ones, but they are exceptionally well crafted.  His Op. 62 2 Mazurkas are to me an advancement and a synthesis of his "inner" middle period and his "outer" nationalistic period, and I wish he had lived longer to develop along these lines.

With Szymanowski you always get craftsmanship, a mastery of compositional technique from counterpoint, harmony, structure, to melody.  His lyrical sense was special, borne out in many exceptional songs and his opera King Roger, a personal favorite of mine.  He was a complex person who battled many hardships and lived in a terrifying era.  He was very conscientious about himself, always keen to improve his awareness of self and society.  This conscientiousness often took a form of a questioning.  At any one of his periods he could have rested on his laurels, but he attempted to always evolve and refine his works, often with drastically different ends.  This explains to some extent his relative lack of popularity, as his three major periods have quite distinct aesthetics, although there is, upon inspection, overlap.  He was a great synthesizer, with his early period influenced by Chopin, Scriabin, Brahms, Wagner, and Reger.  His middle period, which is his so-called "impressionistic" period, marries the harmonic intensity of Scriabin with techniques from Ravel and Debussy, and contributes much to the style, both compositionally and in terms of sophistication of sound, to me representing an apex of the movement.  His nationalistic period was influenced by both abstract music and neoclassical composers, notably Stravinsky, with whom he once debated over the nature of the piano, Stravinsky saying that was essentially a percussion instrument, but Szymanowski insisting on its illusionistic capacities and melodic potential.

There are only a handful of composers who I wish could've lived much longer, because their work is capable of responding to new stimuli and making new sound-worlds.  Szymanowski is one of them who, having accomplished so much, could have done so much more to advance compositional form and modern forms of expression.  His work is hard to take stock of, because it is so varied, and admirers of one period may have distaste for another.  But it's masterfully conceived and a musical corpus that I personally treasure.

[krncandi]

I LOVE me some Szymanowski. He's notoriously very very difficult to learn and interpret especially when he moves out of his romantic style. He's known to be incredibly eclectic and has played and fused impressionism, neoclassicism, and atonality. His Variations in B and Etudes are excellent examples of his romantic era and Masques, Metopes and his piano sonatas are his mature style which are very very complex