do you agree with this statement?

[BoliverAllmon]

I talked to my teacher some more about the new repertoire. He said something that I would be curious if you agree.

There are three aspects of piano playing: the notes, the technique to play those notes properly, and interpretation to play those notes beautifully. If you can't play the notes, then you can't learn the proper technique or the interpretation, therefore the piece is too hard and wasting time.

We aren't talking about sight-reading the notes, but be able to get a grasp of the notes quickly.

Do you agree?

boliver

[thalbergmad]

This is similar to something Godowsky once said. For him the 3 aspects were the mechanical, the technical and the personal.

The great pianists have all 3.

I completely agree.

[Bob]

I think the faster you can get the notes down, the more you're going to be able to do with it. 

If you can play it at sight, then you're taking, processing, and interpretating a lot -- you have a lot of ability and will be able to go far when you start working on it. 

If you struggle to even hit the notes on the first measure, then you're probably going to spend a lot of time just on notes and rhythm.  I would think it's much less likely you'll ever complete that piece.  That's not to say taking on a piece like that is a waste of time.

[BoliverAllmon]

I think the faster you can get the notes down, the more you're going to be able to do with it. 

If you can play it at sight, then you're taking, processing, and interpretating a lot -- you have a lot of ability and will be able to go far when you start working on it. 

If you struggle to even hit the notes on the first measure, then you're probably going to spend a lot of time just on notes and rhythm.  I would think it's much less likely you'll ever complete that piece.  That's not to say taking on a piece like that is a waste of time.

he says waste of time because in the same time it takes you to learn that very difficult piece, you could have learned 5-10 lesser difficult pieces, but progressed your technique just as far or farther.

boliver

[steinwayguy]

My reaction to the statement-


Erm 

[MattL]

but i think if you finish that difficult piece you technique is bound to be much more improved than if you were to play the less demanding ones which only gradually increase you technical ability

[BoliverAllmon]

but i think if you finish that difficult piece you technique is bound to be much more improved than if you were to play the less demanding ones which only gradually increase you technical ability

not necessarily. Take for instance Shostakovich PC 2 first mvt. In there is a 16th note passage with 8th notes in the bass. I can't remember where the lick is located really. I worked real hard on that passage simply because the memorization was difficult to the obscurity of patterns. On the other hand I learned a 16th note passage with 8ths in the bass in a Haydn sonata once. Both passages required the same technique, but the Haydn was easier to learn because the patterns were more easily noticable. One piece was harder and took longer, and the Haydn was easier and took way less: end result same technique. I hope I am making myself clear.

boliver

[mound]

he says waste of time because in the same time it takes you to learn that very difficult piece, you could have learned 5-10 lesser difficult pieces, but progressed your technique just as far or farther.

boliver

That's the whole basis for most of what Bernhard talks about.

[BoliverAllmon]

That's the whole basis for most of what Bernhard talks about.

true

[Glyptodont]

Boliver--

I think your teacher is exactly on target, and I think he/she has them in the right order.

God help us, we make things complex to our own dispair. 


Best wishes in your progress--


Glyptodont

[MattL]

not necessarily. Take for instance Shostakovich PC 2 first mvt. In there is a 16th note passage with 8th notes in the bass. I can't remember where the lick is located really. I worked real hard on that passage simply because the memorization was difficult to the obscurity of patterns. On the other hand I learned a 16th note passage with 8ths in the bass in a Haydn sonata once. Both passages required the same technique, but the Haydn was easier to learn because the patterns were more easily noticable. One piece was harder and took longer, and the Haydn was easier and took way less: end result same technique. I hope I am making myself clear.

boliver

Perfectly but what I am trying to say is that if you have the desire to keep at the more difficult piece, at least for me, there is a strong sense of satisfaction in knowing that you aquired the technique through a piece that you enjoy playing and are pround of the fact that you completed it.

[alzado]

Nowhere in this thread does the original poster ever explain whether he or she really LIKES the piece.

Since I have no wish to be a professional musician, I have no reason to play except to enjoy the experience.

I am capable of putting in some real effort if I like a piece.  Music is not like taking medicine, so if I really don't care for the piece, I will just not waste time on it.

This reaction of mine is all the more important if the piece is difficult.  A sense of grim duty is not much of a motivator for me.

[BoliverAllmon]

I enjoy tons of music. The easier pieces are pieces I enjoy also.

[thalberg]

Three aspects to piano playing?  I say there are five:

The physical (how you use your body at the instrument)
The aural (the sound you make and your interpretation)
The socio-economic (how much respect people give you and what your income is)
The sartorial (what you wear on stage)
Behavioral (bizarre quirks in your personality that come with being a pianist)


But that's just me......

[BoliverAllmon]

Three aspects to piano playing?  I say there are five:

The physical (how you use your body at the instrument)
The aural (the sound you make and your interpretation)
The socio-economic (how much respect people give you and what your income is)
The sartorial (what you wear on stage)
Behavioral (bizarre quirks in your personality that come with being a pianist)


But that's just me......

that is cool, the three aspects that I spoke off are subsumed under your physical and aural aspects. I like the list though.

[Teddybear]

I'm into Neuhaus's idea: if you have a clear picture of what you're trying to do musically, technique will follow. All you have to know is what you want your playing to sound like. With that, you will overcome all technical difficulties eventually. I like this idea very much, it works for me.

T

[BoliverAllmon]

never thought of it like that.

[thalberg]

Forgot one.

Theatrical (contorted facial expressions, head bobbing (yes, yes), head shaking--(no, no), upper body gyrations, and stomping)

[BoliverAllmon]

and that can be curbed or done away with in my opinion. annoying alot of times.