Can a technician brighten the bass?

[thalberg]

I'm about to buy a new Mason and Hamlin BB, and the bass on this one is a little muddy.  I like the instrument otherwise, and I got an attractive deal on the purchase.  I'm just wondering, could I have a technician fix this?  Or should I forget the good price and shop more for the perfect instrument?

[Axtremus]

How many M&H BB's have you played? Is that particular M&H BB new or used (and how old if it's used)?

If ALL of them sound muddy to you (to you specifically, not any one else, since we all have different ears and have different threshold to qualify something as "muddy"), then it might be a fundamental characteristics of the M&H that you just do not like, (and may be too fundamental in the BB's tone for a tech to change). If that's the case, I'd say keep shopping.

If you have not played more than say, 2~3 M&H BB's, then there is a very good chance that the 4th, 5th, or 6th M&H BB you run into will have a bright enough bass to please you and you wouldn't have to compromise at all to buy that M&H BB.

Alternatively, you can make a request to the seller that he brighten up the bass further for your evaluation. Assuming the seller understand that you are very, very serious about the purchase and that the bass is your only stumbling block, a request like this may be well-received by the seller.

Good luck.

[thalberg]

That's precisely the problem.  I didn't have enough BBs to choose from (they're brand new).  The ebony one had the muddy bass.  They had a mahogany one with a bass that's just the way I like it.  But I'm NOT buying mahogany--it's beautiful to look at, but it would make me crazy to practice on (that's just me).  I loved the price they offered me, but I just have to face it that I shouldn't get that piano.  I've made arrangements to travel to New York where I can have several BBs to  choose from.  I'm going to Faust Harrison pianos--they're world class technicians who work on new pianos for three days straight before they put them in the showroom. 

[gkatele]

Frankly, I'm really surprised that the dealer wouldn't do any work to get the piano to your specifications. It makes me wonder about his honesty and reliability. There's a lot of talk here and on other forums about what "dealer prep" is worth.

Obviously - a lot!

Keep us posted as to your search.



George

[Axtremus]

Actually, if you have heard another BB (in this case, the Mahogany BB) that has the sound just like you want it, then you can reasonably ask the seller to work on the black BB to make it sound more like the Mahogany BB -- the Mahogany BB shows you that indeed the BB can give you the sound you like, and I'll take that as an indication that the black BB can be worked on to also give you that sound.

The Mahogany skin is just a very thin layer of vaneer -- it's not an element that will affect the sound, so it's not like you have to get that Mahogany skin to give you that kind of sound. (Now if the seller refuse to voice the black BB or if you do not have confident in the seller to voice that BB, then of course walk away and go shop elsewhere.)

Good luck.

[iumonito]

Thalberg, a couple of thoughts: 

Ask the dealer to switch the actions between the pianos.  What you are hearing is the state of maturity of the hammers (I think).  The muddy piano will stop being muddy after about 40 to 60 hours of play in that register (pull out your Op 53 polonaise or your Funerailles).  If you don't want to wait, or feel no faith, the action of the mahogany must be there already.

Just for the record, I think it is a crime to lacker hammers, specially in a fine piano like a Mason BB.

If you think Faust Harrison is worth a trip for its prep, you have to call Keith.  You will never buy a piano any other way. 

[thalberg]

Really?? Who is Keith?  Why is he good?  So far, I've been dealing with Irving Faust and so I feel really committed to spending the day with him.  But if there's something I should know about Keith, I'm all ears.

Anyway, you guys were really insightful.  Truthfully, the bottom line is this: I really don't have any confidence in this dealer simply because I'm totally unacquainted with them.  They just totally bowled me over with the price they offered me. I'd rather just go to New York at this point. 

I really trust Faust Harrison.  The piano price they offered was 5 grand more for the same instrument, but to me it's totally worth it.  5 grand is a lot, but then again I know from experience how painful it is to practice 3-4 hours every day on a piano that's a great big disappointment. Plus, they are really world-class technicians .  I bet that 5 grand is going toward the three-full-day prep they put into every new piano.  Plus their selection is big.

[iumonito]

Keith (my hero, really) is a very knowledgeable pianist turned hot-rod piano shop co-owner located in Gaithersburg, Maryland.  You can find him at www.pianocraft.net.  I like them a lot, they sold me my piano and I am very happy with it.

It is a little taxing, depending of where you are, but I think what you should do is visit both and let the pianos speak for themselves.  Make sure you call well in advance, because pianocraft attends to its customers one at a time.  Period.  (Kind of like the soup Nazi, but nice.  ) 

If this plan sounds too busy, I still think you would be remiss not to at least give Keith a call and talk Masons for 5 minutes with him.  I don't mean to sway you (I have no interest other than you getting the best piano you can, pianos are so beautiful!), but I have been to the shops in NY and there is no comparison.

Your call, of course.  Good luck!

[keith d kerman]

Iumonito, no soup for you!  I really appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who has played so many different pianos at so many different locations! 

Thalberg, Faust Harrison is one of the very few dealers in the country who I strongly recommend.  If you found a BB there that you love, you can feel absolutely confident in buying it.   

[thalberg]

Keith, you sound like a gem of a person.  Thanks for recommending Faust Harrison, it makes me feel so much better.

Irving Faust is going to spend the whole day with me on July 2nd, just him and me, so I'm happy about that.

I had to go to the local dealership today and back out of my BB purchase on the one with the muddy bass.  I felt terrible because I really liked the salesperson and knew he would be disappointed at losing such a large sale.  But he was a prince about it--he said that he was taken aback, but that he understood my decision because when there was more than one BB available, this (what I was buying) was always the one left behind for the very reason I complained about.  I thought that was so gracious and honest.  He offered to have one trucked in from Wisconsin for me, but I said no because I want more than one option.  So I'm going to New York.

[thalberg]

You know, I'll be coming from South Carolina, so Maryland is right on the way.  Maybe I could stop both places......unless I decide to fly....

[thalberg]

Also, Keith,
What do you think of the Steinway dealership in NY?  Just out of curiosity.

[keith d kerman]

Thalberg,

I thought you were local to NYC!  Of course you are more than welcome to visit, if you are in the area.
As for the Steinway dealer in NYC, I didn't know they had one!  Must be some new upstart

[iumonito]

Funny, Keith.

Erica Feidner is legendary for having a keen sense of matchmaking between her customers and her Steinway pianos.

She tried to match me up with a Boston and that was the end of that for me.  There is no better place in NY to buy a piano than FH, but I told you already how I feel.

To make it a full trip, I understand there is a shop in Philadelphia whom everybody thinks it's in NJ (or the other way around).  Rick, you there?

[Axtremus]

Just go to Steinway Hall on the 57th street... just a few minutes short walk from Faust Harrison's NYC store anyway. It's worht a look even if you're just a tourist and not a piano shopper.

[catherinel]

I just spent several hours with Sara Faust, playing several pianos at the Irvington "show room" - really their house! Then we travelled to the factory for a tour and more pianos! They definately pay attention to details - now I have a tough decision ahead.

BTW - for those who have dealt with Faust Harrison, is their price list solid, or should I try to negotiate lower - I'm not good at this!

Also, I was considering checking out Cunningham Pianos in PA and Lindeblad in NJ (I live in CT). Has anyone heard of these restorers?

Thanks
Cath

[gfiore]

 Go see Rich Galassini at Cunnungham's They are  one of the top 10 rebuilder's in the country. Plus, you can try the new Bösendorfer's, M&H, and Estonia's. They also have many rebuilds for sale, including Steinway's.

[catherinel]

It's good to hear that they are reputable! I see that you are from NJ - are you familiar with Lindeblad?