My Shigeru Kawai has arrived!

[zlh]

My SKII arrived last weekend. Just want to share the joy with all...

Watching the move was an experience in itself. I live on the 3rd floor, and the lift's too small to fit the piano. 4 men, a lot of gear (trolley, staircase rollers, belts, tons of protective casings and coverings), and 1.5 hours later, the piano was installed. BTW, the entire action was carried separately, and slotted in onsite.

The tone was wonderful as expected, but LOUD. Way way louder than I'd imagined. I expected my half-furnished living room (just finished renovation) with hardwood floor to amplify the piano, but never expected it to amplify this much. Now searching for furnishings to dampen the sound in my living room...  Lesson for prospective piano buyers: check your room acoustics.

Other than that, couldn't be happier with the purchase. The tuner is coming this weekend to fine tune the piano. Can't wait.

[barganax]

ZLH,
Congratulations on your new piano!
I spent months searching for a piano and in the end I ordered a Shigeru. I found the sound and action to be superb. To me, it has the warmth of something like an Estonia but with with better bass and reserve power when called for.

With regard to the loudness in your environment, you probably already know this but common suggestions are to (1) place a carpet underneath, (2) angle the piano in the room so that the sound does not reflect straight back at you, and (3) stay away from reflective surfaces like glass.

Enjoy!

[zlh]

Thanks.

Yes, am searching for a thick carpet right now. I suspect when more of my furniture arrived, the environment will be more sound absorbent (fingers crossed).

Which Shigeru did you get?

Agree with your thoughts on the tone. I like the warm and mellow tone, so it suits me just fine. The action response was even better than I remembered at the showroom -- of course it then exposes my fingering weaknesses as well. All in all, I am absolutely thrilled.

ZLH

[barganax]

ZLH,
I ordred an SK-6 that should arrive about 2 months from now. They are in very short supply because a large number of them were ordered by a Canadian music school.

BTW I forgot to mention that the first time I played an SK-2 I was stunned at how good the base was. If I were buying a piano of that size I would choose an SK-2.

In regard to room treatments, there is a lot of info over on pianoworld.com, in fact there is a discussion going on right now. The concensus seems to be that hardwood is generally good because you can easily tone it down, but if you have wall-to-wall carpeting that is more difficult to deal with.

BTW what city/country are you located in?

[Floristan]

Congrats on your new Shigeru.  I'm green with envy!   Might you post a photo?

[zlh]

Thanks barganax and floristan for your well wishes.

Barganax, I loved the SK-6, but had neither the money nor space at home to purchase it. You are very fortunate indeed.

Thanks for the room treatment tips. Will work with my interior designer on that. My apartment is near, but not completely renovated yet. The soft furnishings are coming in over the next few weeks, which I hope will help the acoustics.

I am in Singapore. Choices of new grands are not great here, and are worse for used grands. Nevertheless, I am glad I found what I wanted after >1yr search. Where about Canada are you from? I will be near Ontario 2 weeks from now to be best man at a wedding.

Floristan, will post a picture soon enough. My particular piece has the Shigeru logo etched to the side (didn't asked for it, but didn't say not to either). Still not decided if that is a good thing or not.

[barganax]

LZH,
I had forgotten -- you had posted previously that you were from Singapore. The Shigeru pricing is excellent there!

Not sure what I wrote to make you think I am from Canada. My home base is the San Francisco Bay Area. But I also spend a lot of time in Santa Fe, NM, where my piano will go. (It is also my wife's favorite place).

How is the humidity variability in your location? Are you going to get a Dampp-chaser?

[thalberg]

Larry Fine  (wrote the piano book) says Dampp Chasers are excellent.  But I've heard a lot of piano technicians say they ruin your piano, and that it's better to humidify the entire area surrounding the piano.  They say Dampp Chasers cause uneven humidity around the sound board and can even be the CAUSE of cracks.  (Yikes!).

I'm not saying I know this for sure, I'm just sharing what I've heard.  I personally believed the person who told me this and just got a room humidifier.  The technician said that my piano was really holding its tune and  that I should keep up what I'm doing, so I guess it worked. 

I had a cool mist humidifer for a while, but the noise was awful.  I switched to a warm mist one that produces steam, and it was silent.  Easy to clean, no white dust anywhere.

Congrats on your new  piano.  How exciting!

[zlh]

Hi Barganax. I was being presumptious. Your mentioning of Canadian Schools led me to think that you were from there... SF is still my favourite city; lived there in '95 at Bush & Taylor Street. Walked to work in Embarcadero every morning. Wonderful.


thalberg & barganax:
Singapore is humid all year round, above 90% humidity at all times. Temperature 24-33 degrees C between night and day; no variation within the year. Two seasons: sunny or rainny :-)

As you'd expect, this does havoc to all wood-based instruments; and I guess most people just expected the pianos here to have shorter lifespan, and more frequent tunings. Few people can afford 24/7 temperature/humidity control in their homes. So that's life.

My Shigeru, like most pianos here, comes with a low powered heating rod (7w I think) to keep at least the action and the pins in relative constant temperature & humidity.

So I really need a DEhumidifier, not humidifier....

LH

[Axtremus]

My Shigeru, like most pianos here, comes with a low powered heating rod (7w I think) to keep at least the action and the pins in relative constant temperature & humidity.

So I really need a DEhumidifier, not humidifier....

Yeap, that sounds about right.

All the advise about keeping it around 40%~50% relative humidity, use Dampp-Chaser, ideal of 42% R.H., etc. may work well for us in the North America, but won't necessarily work well or be practical in your climate region.

Bottom line is this: You see how other pianos in your climate region react, you see how those fitted with a low-powered heating rods react, and if most pianos there do well with that heating rod, you know that has got to be a workable, tested solution for your climate region.

Enjoy your new piano!

[zlh]

Thanks Axtremus

Most people would settle for the little heating rods here.

My previous upright served us well for 30 years. The strings have rusted the past few years and can no longer stand a proper tuning. However, a determined owner can always get it re-strung, and get decent performance out of it.

Just had my Shigeru tuned (1st on site tuning). Very pleased with the tone: even better than when it first arrived! Can't wait for it to "break-in".

[pianoheart]

Hi zlh,
I'm from Singapore too! Happened to read your post about Kawai's SK2, I'm thinking to get one for myself as well. I just want to double confirm with you: how did you manage to negotiate such a wonderful price with the distributor? Their salesman quoted me about 35% of what you get on SK2 last Saturday.

By the way, I visited Yamaha's showroom today. I was told that they are going to have a one day only special offer on C3 in September, the price will be very much the same to SK3 (based on what you paid for SK2). So....can anyone advise me if SK-3 and C3 are offered at same price, which piano is more worth the $$$$$?
Many many thanks.

[frederic.lu]

I also wonder the price of SK-2 at S'pore is so low. I have check the Kawai Japan web at www.kawai.co.jp, the listing price are

SK-2 : JPY 1,942,500 = USD 17,344
SK-3 : JPY 2,257,500 = USD 20,156

I got quote in TW
SK- 2 : USD 19,000
SK -3 : USD 22,000

After few hours compare side by side RX-3( both ABS and Millenium III), RX-5(Millenium III) and SK-2(ABS). I decide to order SK-3. The SK sound siginificant better than RX. But I got to wait for 3 months !!

[wzkit]

Congratulations! I'm from Singapore too and am in seriously looking at a Shigeru SK-3 or even a SK-5. Everything's near perfect about the piano...except that I'm concerned that the treble is a little too "subdued" for my tastes. - very important considering the need to get the top notes to "sing" out .  Do you have any problems with a sudued treble on your SK-2? I was wondering if I could get the dealer to deal with that problem, without having to voice up the hammers. Do tell me about how your piano breaks in.

Have also seriously looked at a Sauter Aplha 160, Petrof IV, Yamaha C3 and C5, amongst others.  The Sauter is by far the most impressive, though I can't say its much better than the Shigeru. The Sauter sound is "fatter", less "transparent" in general (not sure if that's something I like) but I prefer the stronger treble, which makes it easy to "sing" the top notes.  But the price difference is immense too

I'm also worried that the piano won't fit into my lift (I stay on the 24th story of a HDB flat). How much were you charged for transport, per floor?

[frederic.lu]

...except that I'm concerned that the treble is a little too "subdued" for my tastes. - very important considering the need to get the top notes to "sing" out .  Do you have any problems with a sudued treble on your SK-2? I was wondering if I could get the dealer to deal with that problem, without having to voice up the hammers. Do tell me about how your piano breaks in.

I had tried SK-2 with old ABS action system. It's a little bit "subdued" as ypou mentioned. But the new millenium III action system. The sound had been tuned more bright. But not as bright as Yamaha C series. Of cause the sound is not caused by action system but the hammer. I mean, those with Millenium III action system have been tuned more bright.

You can also choice which sound you prefer and key touch, key weight while you order SK !! Of casue it's very subjective. But at least you can tell the dealer which way you prefer.

For the first year, the tuner will come from Japan - Only for SK, not RX. I don't know whether S'pore have this service. But here, Taiwan, we have this service.

[frederic.lu]

Have also seriously looked at a Sauter Aplha 160, Petrof IV, Yamaha C3 and C5, amongst others.  The Sauter is by far the most impressive, though I can't say its much better than the Shigeru. The Sauter sound is "fatter", less "transparent" in general (not sure if that's something I like) but I prefer the stronger treble, which makes it easy to "sing" the top notes.  But the price difference is immense too

I also love Sauter very much. But you got to be careful that whether it fit the climate in S'pore. I guess, the weather would be also quite humid. The european piano may not really fit in Asia weather. That's why I finally go to Kawai SK. The action system is much more stable in high humid climate.

[wzkit]

I also love Sauter very much. But you got to be careful that whether it fit the climate in S'pore. I guess, the weather would be also quite humid. The european piano may not really fit in Asia weather. That's why I finally go to Kawai SK. The action system is much more stable in high humid climate.

Thanks Frederic. I agree that the Kawai's ABS action would probably be better for our climate here. Also, the Sauter sound, while a beautiful one, and while something I can admire, is not something I'm used to. Whereas the Shigeru Kawai's sound is more "neutral", although probably less "colourful" when compared to Sauter. For example, when you depress the una-corda, the tone on the Shigeru does not change as much as the Sauter.

I can live with the pedal issue though - provided the problem about the weak treble is rectified. The dealer told me he could apply chemicals to the hammers to harden it, but I'm reluctant to apply any treatment which could be irreversible. I wonder if tuning might be the reason for the balance problem.

[barganax]

wzkit,
In regard to applying chemicals to the hammers (!) of a shigeru, see this web page:
https://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/2004-February/149970.html
It is the middle of a discussion that someone had about 1 1/2 yrs ago on the topic of voicing up an sk3.

Personally I would not purchase a new piano on a promise that applying chemicals to the hammers will make it sound the way you want it to. Did you find out if an SK5 can be delivered and fit into your living area? If so, maybe you would be better off to wait and see if you like it better?

[wzkit]

wzkit,
In regard to applying chemicals to the hammers (!) of a shigeru, see this web page:
https://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/2004-February/149970.html
It is the middle of a discussion that someone had about 1 1/2 yrs ago on the topic of voicing up an sk3.

Personally I would not purchase a new piano on a promise that applying chemicals to the hammers will make it sound the way you want it to. Did you find out if an SK5 can be delivered and fit into your living area? If so, maybe you would be better off to wait and see if you like it better?

Thanks barganx. I have seen that article, and that's precisely the reason why I don't want to apply "doping" on the hammers. It still puzzles me why the treble was so weak in comparison to the mid-range and bass, when most others had said otherwise. I'm quite sure  the Shigeru could  not have earned its reputation with a weaker treble as compared to say, a Petrof or Boehmia.

Which leads me to wonder if the particular piano I tried was just an anamoly, due to poor dealer prep, or a lemon. I understand you own a SK-6(?). How's the balance between the treble and bass on the Sk-6?

And no, I have not yet asked the dealer about the SK-5 yet. One reason is that the SK-5 is out of stock in Singapore and will only arrive in late Sep/Oct. In any case, if I do decide to go with either the SK-3 or SK-5, I doubt both would fit into my lift, which would mean them having the haul up 24 floors!

[iumonito]

A better way to brighten the sound of the weaker register (barring that you have a major problem, such as a dead spot in the soundboard or some structural weakness that I would find unlikely in a Kawai) is to play the weak register a lot, to the point that it needs to be voiced down (for color if not for volume) several times.  The natural process of the hammer seasoning is to become brighter with use.

Lackering hammers should be a punishable crime.

[barganax]

wzkit,
I can't answer your question because my sk6 is on order and I probably won't get to play it until mid-September.

The is someone over on pianoworld named Suz who owns an SK5. You could PM her and ask her about the balance between base and treble on her SK5.

[Dazzer]

god you guys are rich...

[frederic.lu]

Thanks Frederic. I agree that the Kawai's ABS action would probably be better for our climate here. Also, the Sauter sound, while a beautiful one, and while something I can admire, is not something I'm used to. Whereas the Shigeru Kawai's sound is more "neutral", although probably less "colourful" when compared to Sauter. For example, when you depress the una-corda, the tone on the Shigeru does not change as much as the Sauter.

I can live with the pedal issue though - provided the problem about the weak treble is rectified. The dealer told me he could apply chemicals to the hammers to harden it, but I'm reluctant to apply any treatment which could be irreversible. I wonder if tuning might be the reason for the balance problem.

For Sigeru Kawai, you can order specified tone, touch as you like for a new one. I have order my SK-3, and the dealer offer this service. I hope the dealer in S'pore also can offer this service.

[happyface94]

That must be a great buy. My conservatory replaced nearly all their practice pianos for Shigeru Kawai's. Although I believe the sound is WAY too mellow at first, it'll get to sound better in a few months of playing.

[Axtremus]

zlh, congratulations on the new piano.

That must be a great buy. My conservatory replaced nearly all their practice pianos for Shigeru Kawai's. Although I believe the sound is WAY too mellow at first, it'll get to sound better in a few months of playing.

Ah HA! So your conservatory is that one causing all this backlog to Shigeru's supply line... see how barganax and wzkit now have to wait until September/October for their big Shigerus?

So... just curious, if you don't mind me asking, which conservatory do you attend (or work at)? Are they putting in big SK-5/6/7's or tiny SK-2/3's in the practice rooms?

[happyface94]

They only ordered SK-5 and 6s. My practice room is an SK-6. (This is also where I attend my piano lessons).

The conservatory I attend is the Montreal Music Conservatory.

My teacher tried 17 of them before choosing the one that went into our room. Crazy.

However, their concert room has 2 piano and they arent SKs. One consists of a Steinway, and the other of a Yamaha.

[zlh]

Wow, I didn't log on for a while, and didn't realised the post generated so much interests. I shall try to answer one by one....

Hi Pianoheart:

I liked the C3, and thought it way superior to C2. Between SK-3 & C3, I will still choose SK-3 for the tone. Shigeru met all my needs, and I was really drawn to the mellow tone and touch. I guess I was real lucky getting the price from Robert Piano: somehow I hit it off real well with the owner when testing playing. He even came personally to my house to tune my piano. Not sure if you can get the same price again, but I will be happy to refer. Drop me a note if you are keen.

Hi Frederic

Congratulations! I would have loved to have the SK-3 but I can't afford it. I am sure the wait is worth it. I am extremely happy with my SK-2.


Hi Wzkit

Congrats! It is really nice to have the budget and space for a larger piano. You are in enviable situation. I personally like mellow, but clean tone. SK series is perfect. To me the treble is just about perfect, but of course this is really subjective. Even though I have a large living room (about 10m by 4m), the piano really rings with the lid fully CLOSED. So careful what you wish for!

HDB lifts may not fit your piano. Make sure you check. If no, ne prepared to pay S$200 per floor. Watching the move was both a amazing and torturing sight to behold, and I only live on a 3rd floor.

Also, I wasn't given the option of tone choices. I basically love the SK tone just the way it is. My advice is to try again before you are convinced that you absolutely need to change the tone of the treble. I find my piano brighter at home than in showroom -- you need to consider that. One important thing: SK is way louder in a home than you think, and HDB flats have thin walls. Be careful that you don't make enemies of your neighbours.

Wzkit & Pianoheart, perhaps we can get in touch. Including two of you, I know at least 4 of us in Singapore of similar interests. Bellebelle just bought her C2, and we are planning to catch up at some point. Drop me a line and I will respond.

Cheers!


LH

[wzkit]

Wow, I didn't log on for a while, and didn't realised the post generated so much interests. I shall try to answer one by one....

Hi Pianoheart:

I liked the C3, and thought it way superior to C2. Between SK-3 & C3, I will still choose SK-3 for the tone. Shigeru met all my needs, and I was really drawn to the mellow tone and touch. I guess I was real lucky getting the price from Robert Piano: somehow I hit it off real well with the owner when testing playing. He even came personally to my house to tune my piano. Not sure if you can get the same price again, but I will be happy to refer. Drop me a note if you are keen.

Hi Frederic

Congratulations! I would have loved to have the SK-3 but I can't afford it. I am sure the wait is worth it. I am extremely happy with my SK-2.


Hi Wzkit

Congrats! It is really nice to have the budget and space for a larger piano. You are in enviable situation. I personally like mellow, but clean tone. SK series is perfect. To me the treble is just about perfect, but of course this is really subjective. Even though I have a large living room (about 10m by 4m), the piano really rings with the lid fully CLOSED. So careful what you wish for!

HDB lifts may not fit your piano. Make sure you check. If no, ne prepared to pay S$200 per floor. Watching the move was both a amazing and torturing sight to behold, and I only live on a 3rd floor.

Also, I wasn't given the option of tone choices. I basically love the SK tone just the way it is. My advice is to try again before you are convinced that you absolutely need to change the tone of the treble. I find my piano brighter at home than in showroom -- you need to consider that. One important thing: SK is way louder in a home than you think, and HDB flats have thin walls. Be careful that you don't make enemies of your neighbours.

Wzkit & Pianoheart, perhaps we can get in touch. Including two of you, I know at least 4 of us in Singapore of similar interests. Bellebelle just bought her C2, and we are planning to catch up at some point. Drop me a line and I will respond.

Cheers!


LH

Hi zlh,
     I think it would be great to meet up! Currently I spend most weekends visiting piano shops here, and have been doing so for about the past 4 months or so. It really is quite a tough call to make. So any advice/feedback is welcome. Do inform me if there're any meetings anytime soon. You could email me at skkit@singnet.com.sg.
     I understand that the piano will sound much louder in my flat when it is finally delivered - however, that can be partially rectified by adding more furniture, using rugs etc. What's more important is the balance between treble and bass - particularly crucial for me because I play  much music that requires a cantabile singinging treble line above a soft accompaniment. Hence, even if the piano sounds much louder as a whole, this would likely not rectify the bass/treble balance. I do however agree about the mellow sound in the mid range and bass being a great strength. My ideal treble sound would be mellow as well, just like it currently is, just louder (even with the same tone characteristics) relative to the bass and mid-range.
      Initially the SK-5 wasn't under consideration given my budget. However, since chances are that the SK-3 will not fit into the lift anyway, why not spend a few K more and go for the SK-5, and pay the same transportation charges anyway? Moreover, there is a chance that the SK-5 could have a better bass/treble balance.
      How long did Robert spend servicing your piano when it was delivered? Was there any voicing/regulation done, besides the regular tuning? The reason why I'm asking is that Shigeru Kawais in the US come with a visit by the Master Piano Artisan from Japan within the first year of visit, but not those sold in Singapore, the reason given to me being that the local technician is just as well qualified. I've no issue with that, given the immense price difference in the 2 markets, but I think given the amount of money we're sinking in, getting a good technician is absolutely essential.
       Another important thing to consider is how well the piano ages. My yamaha for example, sounded good in the showroom, but became brittle rather fast after delivery. Do keep us updated about that!

[zlh]

Hmmmm.... play harder on the right hand?

I have had my Shigeru for close to two months. So far I've had two tunings
1. 1st tuning by Robert after 1 week
2. 2nd tuning by his Steinway tuner 1 month after

The tuning tends to run in the first couple of months, so I wasn't surprised. Robert Piano was really nice about it -- they did the above two tunings FOC and did not considered them part of the free first year tunings.

So far I am happy with the technician; will evaluate and decide if I'd continue after the first year.

No, there was no regulation work done. Basically, they assembled the piano, and slotted in the actions. That's it. Works fine for me.

No fixed time to meet yet. But do drop me a line at zlihao@hotmail.com. We can hook up.