Hanon vs. Czerny

[hans]

Hello,

what would you say is the difference on principle between Hanon and Czerny Exercises. Which of Czerny's would you recommend and in which order?

Thanks
Hans

[BoliverAllmon]

I would recommend Bach and Scarlatti.

[hans]

Hello BoliverAllmon,

thanks for your quick answer. You mean, they are both totally useless? And what about other technical exercises like scales and so on?

Hans

[xvimbi]

You mean, they are both totally useless? And what about other technical exercises like scales and so on?

They are not useless. They simply have their pro's and con's. Read through the myriads of threads dealing with technical exercises (two of them are quite active right now):

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4887.0.html
(check out the huge list of links posted in this thread by Bernhard)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7447.0.html

This is just to get a general feel for what the arguments are.

In terms of order of exercises, well, one would have to evaluate your playing in detail to make recommendations, but I am the wrong one to give advice here, as you will see when you read through the material

[hans]

Hello xvimbi,

thanks. My question about the other technical exercises was meant, if he thinks, that in general all technical problems could be solved by pieces from the works of Bach and Scarlatti (and others). I think, it's like other training (in sports and other "body coordinating arts"): Something you can improve more efficiently in isolated exercises.

Greetings
Hans

[xvimbi]

Hello xvimbi,

thanks. My question about the other technical exercises was meant, if he thinks, that in general all technical problems could be solved by pieces from the works of Bach and Scarlatti (and others). I think, it's like other training (in sports and other "body coordinating arts"): Something you can improve more efficiently in isolated exercises.

IMO, all technical problems can be solved more efficiently by playing pieces. More specifically, if I have a technical problem, I make my own "exercise" that addresses exactly the problem I have. Who knows whether a given Hanon or Czerny exercise will help you in that tricky spot in La Campanella? Doing exercises will improve your skills, there is no question (as long as it is done properly), but it is highly debatable whther this is the most efficient approach to playing the piano. Go through the mentioned posts, and you'll see what I mean.

[Selim]

Czerny op229 school of Velocity is better than all Hanon.

[c18cont]

Both have their legitimate uses...

John

[hans]

Hello xvimbi and others,

thanks for your replies. The given links (by bernhard) are stuff enough for me to read next days. At last: What pieces of Scarlatti would you recommend? Is there any order like this in a recent thread given of Bach's material?

Thanks
Hans

[xvimbi]

Hello xvimbi and others,

thanks for your replies. The given links (by bernhard) are stuff enough for me to read next days. At last: What pieces of Scarlatti would you recommend? Is there any order like this in a recent thread given of Bach's material?

Thanks
Hans

Bernhard is the prime Scarlatti proponent. I am not sure if he already posted a list of Scarlatti sonatas in an order suitable for technique/musicality development, but I am sure one will show up really soon

[hans]

Ok, then let's wait and see ...

Hans

[bernhard]

Bernhard is the prime Scarlatti proponent. I am not sure if he already posted a list of Scarlatti sonatas in an order suitable for technique/musicality development, but I am sure one will show up really soon

Actually, I am an "every composer under the sun" proponent.

See below.

[bernhard]

Ok, then let's wait and see ...

Hans

Wait no more!

Great idea for a 20-year project! To order the 555 Scarlatti sonatas in order of difficulty!

In the meantime, you can have a look here where I have graded and commented on over 100 sonatas:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2339.msg20064.html#msg20064
(favourite sonatas).

And here are 192 (I think) sonatas ordered by difficulty . They are all superb pieces of music, but I have underlined my favourites (reflecting my personal taste rather than the excellency of the sonata). And of course, degrees of difficulty are always subjective. I would also suggest that you always learn in tandem a fast, virtuoso sonata (usually marked allegro and above) and a lyrical, slow one (usually marked andante and below). Enjoy!

Elementary sonatas:

Grade 3:

K32 - K34 – K40  - K42 - K73 - K80 - K81 - K83 - K88 – K382 - K471.

Grade 4:

K63 - K74 - K75 - K95 - K163 - K199 – K322 – K377 - K512

Intermediate sonatas:

Grade 5:

K25 – K54 – K59 - K65 – K67  - K70 – K79 - K85 - K102 – K112 – K123 – K175 -K178 – K201 – K203 – K208 - K211 – K213 – K274 - K278 - K285 - K307 - K323 - K325 - K335 - K341 – K342 - K348 - K349 – K373 - K376 – K381 - K389 - K394 – K402 – K404 – K405 - K453 – K454 – K461 - K514 - K515 – K531 - K541 – K544 – K547

Grade 6:

K1  -  K11  - K13  - K19  - K20  - K35  - K38  - K51  - K53  - K64  - K77  - K100  - K105  - K109  - K119  - K125  - K132  - K146  - K149  - K158  - K165  - K184  - K193  - K198  - K212  - K214  - K239  - K247  - K255  - K264  -  K266  - K268  - K289  - K300  - K303  - K333  - K371  - K378  -  K379  - K 380  - K384  - K386  - K387  - K391  - K421  - K425  - K427  - K428  - K429  - K431  - K432  - K440  -  K446  - K470  - K475  - K481  - K490  - K491  - K502  - K511  - K520  - K532  - K537  - K551

Advanced sonatas:

Grade 7:

K2 - K4 - K6 - K8 - K9 - K33 – K39 – K46 – K52 – K69 - K82 – K98 - K124 - K133 - K134 – K135 - K140 - K159 – K197 - K200 – K259 - K261 - K284 - K318 - K393 - K415 - K436 – K443 - K487 - K492 - K496 - K507 - K525 –

Grade 8:

K3 – K24 – K27 - K29 - K30 - K31 - K41 - K58 - K87 - K93 - K96 - K113 - K120 - K128 – K141 - K142 - K162 - K169 - K185 - K417 – K426 - K430 - K444 – K466 - K474 – K478 - K513 - K517 - K535

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[omnisis]

Yikes!  I had no idea this guy was so prolific....Thanks for the list Bernhard, this is really useful!

~omnisis

[xvimbi]

Yikes!  I had no idea this guy was so prolific....Thanks for the list Bernhard, this is really useful!

~omnisis

Yes, and as Bernhard always says "This is just the tip of the iceberg". There are not just 192 Scarlatti sonatas, but 555!

Check 'em all out at https://www.kunstderfuge.com/scarlatti.htm

[hans]

Hello Bernhard,

it' great! Many thanks. Because I live in Leipzig, I'm a bit focused on J.S.B and now I'm happy to get a kick in a new direction.  I hope that I will overcome at least the easiest material of Scarlatti, for I'm a very beginner in piano playing (and english writing ...)

Let's go
Hans

[Teddybear]

Hmm. My teacher told me that once I can play Czerny's The Art of Finger Dexterity Op. 740 I can play anything I want. I like and hate these etudés because of their wide range of dynamics which make them terribly challenging.

T

[c18cont]

All of which reminds me, I need to dig out the Scarlatti stuff....

Been a long time, but it would be fun to attempt some again...(but after my wrists get a bit better...)!

As to the Czerny "Art Of...etc..."   .. Well... I wonder that would be a bit too hopeful...?

John