help please

[keys]

I just played for my ARCT in piano performance, so now I get to pick new pieces! Do you have any ideas for baroque and classical selections? I was reading Dazzer’s thread on competition repertoire and there were some interesting suggestions. My ARCT program was as follows:

 JS Bach Prelude and Fugue in C# -
 Chopin Etude Op.10/7
 Beethoven’s Waldstein Sonata (complete)
 Prokofieff Visions Fugitives (selections)
 Rachmaninoff Prelude Op.4 in D major
 Chopin Polonaise in A flat major

I sort of had my heart set on learning Beethoven’s Op.111, but I recently competed against a guy who played that piece, and he won, so I don’t want to look like I’m trying to copy his selection. Also, I look really young – and that could tick some people off.  At the competition the adjudicator said that he didn’t like young kids to play Beethoven’s late sonatas, that they should play pieces like the Waldstein, so he approved of are respective piece choices… and I’m pretty sure I’m at least as old as the guy who played the 111. I want a nice heavy sonata, I LOVE the second movement of the 111. And I’d like the piece to be from Beethoven’s book 2 because that is the one I own and they are expensive.

K, my Baroque story:  I’ve decided I don’t want to perform or compete with Bach’s WTC anymore.  End of story.  Alternate suggestions?

If it helps I can post the rest of my repertoire. 

[Glyptodont]

At risk of offending, I must say-- does it occur to you that you are locked into a very short list of "world's greatest" composers?  And innumerable tired old " war horses"?

There was a poll where we were asked to pick our "favorite composer."  About 8 composers garnered about 90 percent of the votes.  Those who deviated from this "famous" list and chose "other" were only about 5 percent.  This tells me that most persons in the academically sanctioned piano culture are musically ignorant.  Chasing each other's tails.  With zero research or zero real perspective on the wealth and enormity of piano literature that is out there.

People do not appreciate how much piano literature there is.  Forget it, after all, there's Rach and Beethoven and Bach and Debussy and Ravel and a handful of others.  These are somehow the ones that are on the "blessed list."  Forget how terribly weary we get of this same old garp over and over and over.  In this path lies sterility.  Sterility and weariness and impotence.

I suggest a few who are not on the obsession list--

Peter Warlock (in arrangements, some of them good)
Alexander Cherepnin
Edward MacDowell
Moussorgsky
Satie

Of course, we must all OBSESS and lock together and play the same tired material ad infinitum. God help us if we have an original thought.  (Punish, punish the very concept!)

Not to put you down.  I am not living in your shoes, and probably don't have a tenth part of your talent.

I wish you well.  What will it be, the Moonlight or the Pathetique?  Staggering choice.  The mind boggles.

[Rach3]

At the competition the adjudicator said that he didn’t like young kids to play Beethoven’s late sonatas,

Ironic, I don't like old people playing them. Too mature.
[/off topic]

Anyway, if you've managed the op. 53 sonata, you could try some late Beethoven if you want. I wouldn't recommend op. 111, it takes years before you're ready to perform it, and can be a frustratingly beautiful piece (if you know what I mean). You should look at any of the other late sonatas, op. 110 for instance (my personal favorite). Or op. 109, or if you're up to it maybe op. 101. Or you could experiment around with a completly new middle-Beethoven sonata (they're all so different!) like maybe op. 31/3 (which is not as hard as Waldstein), or op. 26 (early) or op. 81a, "Les Adieux" (an emotionally charged piece that I'd say is on par with Waldstein in difficulty, see for yourself). Three very-little-performed sonatas are op. 31/1, 54, and 79 (F# major!).

Why exactly are you against doing another WTC P&F? They're all absolutely different from one another. Look at E major from book II - it's completly different from all the others. If you're avoding WTC because you're sick of counterpoint, then (for major works) look at the Partitas - no. 1 is my favorite. I have a video somewhere with Glenn Gould playing the c minor partita... I can't remember where it was though.  Or try any of the five hundred or so Scarlatti sonatas (there's a thread here IRC in which favorites are discussed). If you hear/see Horowitz playing any one of them you'll immediatly want to play it yourself. They're somewhat shorter than  "classical" sonatas - but still quite challenging.

[Rach3]

Glyptodont - the OP was asking for a classical & baroque piece because his/her options are limited by a teacher or a music school (something to do with "ARCT"). Your suggested composers are all post-1900. In fact, they aren't really "out of the way" composers at all - Satie's music is commonly heard in recitals, and Mussorgsky wrote one of the most ubiqutous and commonly-played pieces in the graduate repertoire ("Pictures at an Exhibition"). The most recent recital I attended featured a MacDowell work (hardly obscure).

For REAL lesser-known composers, within the classical definition, look at Kuhlau, Clementi (sonatas), Weber, J.C. Bach, or Hummel. Hummel was once considered to be on par with Beethoven (though of course he's not quite there); he wrote some amazingly virtuosic (!) sonatas. Stephen Hough was on tour a couple of years ago with his F# minor sonata. Baroque-wise, if you're willing to look at the non-piano keyboard music than there are more composers than I can name. Not all were inspired, but there's a lot of great stuff there. How many of you have ever performed anything by Biber?

[allchopin]

There was a poll where we were asked to pick our "favorite composer."  About 8 composers garnered about 90 percent of the votes.  Those who deviated from this "famous" list and chose "other" were only about 5 percent. 

I hate to say it, but there is a reason why these composers get played so often.  People simply love their music and there's nothing wrong with that.  If someone wants to play the Op. 111 and there is substantial knowledge about what they are doing then power to them (there is a difference when the person isn't aware of other rep - take the 'Rach 3' cliche mindset of some on the forum).  Like it or not, good music is good music.

Though I have to say, Keys, good pick on the Chopin etude - this one doesn't get the spotlight too often!

As for suggestions, you can't really go wrong with a Scarlatti sonata, and if you're hesitant about Bach, try some transcriptions if they're allowed.  Sometimes the most beautiful renditions of a piece are ones redone later.  I particularly like Brahms' transcription of Bach's Chaconne in D minor (it is Brahms' 5th etude, for left hand only).

[Rach3]

I hate to say it, but there is a reason why these composers get played so often.  People simply love their music and there's nothing wrong with that...Like it or not, good music is good music.

Right on!

- take the 'Rach 3' cliche mindset of some on the forum)

I find that offensive! 


-rach3

[steinwayguy]

Edward MacDowell?


Snore?

I don't necessarily think late Beethoven is good for competitions just because of the pieces. I mean, I doubt you want to learn the Hammerklavier. 111 is kind out of the question according to you and previous posters. 110 doesn't show too much. If you can pull off the opening of 109 really convincingly I'll give you my left leg. 101 would be nice, as would 90.

Les Adieux is a good choice I think.

Why Bach? Why not J.C. Bach? There's an amazing Fantasy that absolutely nobody has ever heard (I heard Robert Weirich play it at one of his master classes). But if you want to J.S. (which is perfectly understandable) I would do a Toccata (g minor?) or an English Suite

[keys]

Okay, I love Bach's WTC and will continue to study Bach's WTC, I just don't want to perform or compete with his Preludes and Fugues anymore. I'm not comfortable with it. I learned the first movement of his Itallian Concerto, and it was lovely. Too long for my exam so I had to drop it. But now I'm done my exam! Wheee! So I am no longer limited in my repitoire choice.

Glyptodon't, you sound like a bit of a snob. The fact that I have my ARCT means I just went through three years of music history so I have actually been exposed to a veriety of differant composers. I also listen to a lot of classical music, and the reason I posted here was because I'm looking for more new ideas! I was limited by a syllabus for my exam program. That was also only one program, not my entire rep.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone! Is Scarlatti difficult to memorize?

[keys]

Though I have to say, Keys, good pick on the Chopin etude - this one doesn't get the spotlight too often!

Oops! It's Op. 10/8. Sorry to dissappoint you

[bernhard]

Is Scarlatti difficult to memorize?

Not at all. (At least not as difficult as Bach). Have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2339.msg20064.html#msg20064
(favourite sonatas).

Also have a look at this superb, unknown and neglected baroque composer :

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4737.msg44794.html#msg44794
(Jacques Duphly)


Best wishes,
Bernhard

[keys]

I went on my Library’s site and found recordings of  Hummel’s piano Concerto’s Op. 85 and Op. 89, Scarlatti Sonata’s and Weber’s complete sonatas. I couldn’t  find any keyboard works by Biber or J.C Bach in the Library though, and I’ve I played some Kuhlau and Clementi so I already have an idea of what they sound like.  I went to Duphly’s site and listened to a few of the clips, there are some interesting pieces but it’s hard to tell exactly what they sound like because they are very short clips, and they are played on a harpsichord. I found a recording at the library of some of his pieces, so I can see what they’re like in their entirety.

Have any of you played much Handel? He was baroque wasn’t he?

Thank you all for your suggestions! I have a lot of listening to do.

[shasta]

I just played for my ARCT in piano performance, so now I get to pick new pieces! Do you have any ideas for baroque and classical selections? I was reading Dazzer’s thread on competition repertoire and there were some interesting suggestions.

In Dazzer's thread, I suggested the following:

Go "unconventional" for Baroque - - - there's more to that period than just Bach and Scarlatti!! 
Perhaps do some investigating into:
  Soler
  Seixas
  Handel
  Couperin
  Rameau
  Duphly
  Arne
  Marchand

[bernhard]

I went on my Library’s site and found recordings of  Hummel’s piano Concerto’s Op. 85 and Op. 89, Scarlatti Sonata’s and Weber’s complete sonatas. I couldn’t  find any keyboard works by Biber or J.C Bach in the Library though, and I’ve I played some Kuhlau and Clementi so I already have an idea of what they sound like.  I went to Duphly’s site and listened to a few of the clips, there are some interesting pieces but it’s hard to tell exactly what they sound like because they are very short clips, and they are played on a harpsichord. I found a recording at the library of some of his pieces, so I can see what they’re like in their entirety.

Have any of you played much Handel? He was baroque wasn’t he?

Thank you all for your suggestions! I have a lot of listening to do.

Yes, the Handel Suites are excellent and criminally underplayed. There is a complete set of them played by Richter and Andrei Gavrilov (EMI), and Murray Perahia also recorded some of them (in his Scarlatti CD for Sony). They sound very good on the piano.

And since you are at it (Baroque composers), why not have a look at Couperin? (As shasta mentioned above). Angela Hewitt recorded several of his “orders” for Hyperion on the piano (a superb CD). My favourites are “Les Baricades misterieuses” and “Le Tic toc choc” (There is a DVD of Grigori Sokolov where he plays it as well).


Best wishes,
Bernhard.