Fantaisie Impromptu

[nightmarecinema]

Alright, well someone directed me to this forum, I searched on this and found one thread by someone playing for three months that wanted to play this. Well, I feel a bit bad about posting this, but I have different intentions than him. I started piano about 10 years ago, but never took it seriously until about a year ago. So, for all intents and purposes, I've been playing piano for one year (studying music for four years, I play guitar as well).

Pieces I have/am working on are: Fur Elise, Solfeggietto, Sonata Facile, Invention 13 in A minor, and Chopin's prelude in E minor.

Anyway, I want to seriously attempt to play Fantaisie Impromptu, or at least work on the 3:4 aspect of it. I have no intention of doing this fast, or working solely on this, but I want to be able to at least start it slow. However, its not necessarily that its 3:4 that throws me off, but the fact that the RH starts on a rest, and I can't do that. So does anyone have any suggestions as to how to approach this?

I apologize once again, I'm sure I'm not the first one to appear like this.

[llamaman]

Go slowly, and ALWAYS COUNT OUT LOUD.

[quantum]

First practice tapping the rhythm away from the piano. 

Here are the two variations, divided among hands.  Yes, also practice the other one, even though it is not used in the FI. 

RH 4, LH 3:
Together - R - L - R - L - R

LH 4, RH 3:
Together - L - R - L - R  - L


Now here is the combined cross rhythm that occurs with either of the above pattern:
Dotted Eighth;
Sixteenth;
Eighth;
Eighth;
Sixteenth;
Dotted Eighth.

The following phrase is helpful in approximating the rhythm, say it out loud while tapping:
"Pass the golden butter"

It will help if you draw the notation of this out on paper. 


Now using all the above info, there is a set of variations you can practice for this and other polyrhythms.  Breaking it down there are two elements: give one rhythm to each hand and tap;  count out loud the rhythm of only ONE hand.  Practice in this sequencial order, and do not pause when switching variations.  This should flow continuously:

1) RH 4, LH 3; Count LH in 3

2) RH 4, LH 3; Count RH in 4

3) RH 3, LH 4; Count LH in 4

4) RH 3, LH 4; Count RH in 3

5) RH 4, LH 3; Count LH in 3 (this is the same as #1 and the pattern loops from here)


Practice can be done, and should be done away from the piano.  Find any spare moment of time you have and tap the looped excercies.  Eg: wating for the bus, nuking your dinner, walking some place, etc.  It doesn't have to be done for very long, only a few minutes.  You will find that you will have learned and be comfortable with the 3 against 4 pattern in no time at all.  The above excercise was one I learned at university. 

[nightmarecinema]

Thanks, I had attempted doing something this a lot in school, though I didn't know if it was necessarily the right thing, though I still have trouble counting the "4" out loud...my left hand kind of plays random things. Although, I never really attempted doing an exercize like that, nor the phrase, which should help, thanks.

[mikeyg]

don't worry too much about the rythm.  It will be so fast that no one wiull be able to tell it it is berfect.  Just make sure that the beats are somewhat even.  The song really has to flow.

[kelly_kelly]

I agree with mikeyg. No one will care or notice if the notes aren't perfectly lined up. After all, it is an impromptu, which is supposed to sound like an improvisation.

[nanabush]

When I learnt it, the left hand became a reflex motion, it just 'fit' with the right hand, thirds on sixteenths came after I played the first measure only, then it was only the runs in the right hand.  The pieces only main difficulty is the 3/4 the notes actually are very comfortable to play in the right hand, xcept at the end there are some big stretches...

[eelco]

Can someone make a youtube.com video on this? I think many people would benefit a lot from it! 

[teresa_b]

Hi nightmare,

I would not want to discourage you, but the FI is quite a leap in difficulty from the pieces you're currently playing.  I think if you need to concentrate so hard on getting the 3 against 4 you probably need to do some less challenging pieces before tackling the FI.  (Honestly--if you try to play something before you are ready, you get very frustrated.  I did this with Chopin's G minor Ballade, and nearly hated it for quite some time!)

Nothing wrong with challenging yourself, but why not save FI for another year and first try something like this:

Beethoven Sonata Op 79 (Has 3 against 4 in finale)
Debussy Preludes Book 1
Schubert Impromptu op 90 no 2
One of the Chopin nocturnes or preludes

Have fun!
Teresa

[teresa_b]

Post deleted because of accidentally posting it twice.

[kony]

nightmarecinema must be referring to the old breadboy thread... hahaha i haven't seen a mention of that for a while.

but back on track, i think it's very inadvisable to do a quantum leap just yet. it gets you going on all the wrong sorts of development in technique and then when playing it you'll probably get tense arms from trying to fit all the notes in, and then getting all frustrated, etc etc.

also, off-topic: for some reason FI sounds worse on any recording after you've played it yourself. (has anyone else had this feeling?) but before you play it, it's so amazing. i guess that's another reason to not play it 

[archneko]

I encourage you to do it. No piece is too hard, you just have to know how to play it , and what to play it.
 FI is pretty difficult, so you should go one note at a time. Just play it note by note, stopping the right hand occasionally for the left hand note to play. You'll get the hang of it, and you'll soon be able to play it by rhythm without your conscious knowledge. Believe me, it gets easier if you play the first 2 lines 4-7 times. Don't attempt to play it all out at once, play it note by note, slowly and in the right place.
 Oh, and good luck with your FI. If you can complete FI, you can achieve many other songs way above your level. As an independant pianist, you have the opportunity to remove the limitations a teacher would set and go beyond the limits of a normal piano student. Enjoy your song.... 
PS: Make sure to sleep alot. I find that whatever I play before I sleep turns into long term knowledge allowing me to see major changes the next time I play.. Well occasionally

[hyrst]

for some reason FI sounds worse on any recording after you've played it yourself. (has anyone else had this feeling?) but before you play it, it's so amazing. i guess that's another reason to not play it

I found that, too!  I used to think the FI was a fantastic piece to listen to - after learning it, every recording I found I disliked.  I especially felt that the performers took too many liberties in time.  WIth the recordings I have, the speed changes and they all miss parts of the harmony that I find very important.  It just was never the same again - although I really enjoy playing it myself, especially afer having a break from it.  I find it so much fun to play.  I have small hands, and it means I have to do lots of wrist work to manage it.  It's fun!