Too many pieces going at once?

[ada]

Hi

Just another question from an intermediate player who's returned to the piano after a lengthy break (and with a vengeance!). Should you concentrate on just learning two or three pieces  and move on to others when you've mastered them (or at least brought yourself up to reasonable standard) or is it okay to be working on a whole lot at once?
I say this because in the six months since I've been playing again I've started on around 18  pieces (and there are more I'd like to start!). I can play about five accurately and at speed and the rest are at various stages of being learned. Of course I don't play each piece every day, I tend to concentrate on a couple for two or three days and then rotate. Is this an effective way to learn or should I be more selective?
Interested to know what some of you more experienced players think.

ada

[steinwayguy]

From my experience, it is extremely difficult and rather inefficient to attempt to master more than even 2 pieces at a time. Then again, the repertoire I have tried this with was ridiculously hard and long. But in general, I am mastering one or two works while learning or working on anywhere from three to five others.

[emmylo471]

I feel to get the most done with about 3 pieces at a time, and when I master one, then I move on to another song. I haven't really tried with a whole bunch of songs at one time though, so I couldn't tell you which way has helped me more or less....but I would think that maybe two or three at a time may be your best bet.

[lagin]

If you include each individual movement as a piece, I'm learning fourteen right now.  I work on half one day and half the next, but I am also a full time piano student, so I have time to do this.  This is the first time I've done do many, but it's working really well.  I spend about a half an hour on each movement, unless the movements are only a couple pages each.  Then I spent a half an hour on a few of them at a time.

[mound]

Figure out how much time you can practice every day. Split that time into 15 -  30 minute practice sessions. The number of practice sessions you can get in every day should dictate the number of pieces you should work on in a given timeframe.  That way you are working on every piece, every day, rather than letting days go by before hitting up a piece again.

that's the gist of it.

you can read much more about all this on these forums, search for posts from Bernhard, xvimbi and many others.

[Baohui]

Mound's advice is good, but you should remember that you could work on several sections of a piece during one day instead of several different pieces. This would get things done much faster. I find that the most important thing is that I can practice every piece I'm learning every day and that I make consistent progress.

[mound]

right.. but don't spend all of one day working on several sections of one piece, and then all of the next day working on several sections of another, and so on. doing so you are still putting days between work on the same material. 

the point is to work on things every day until you don't need to work on them any longer. Bernhard posted a stat somewhere, something about 90% retention the very next day, 40% retention after 2 days of not revisiting material, 10% retention after 3 days and then total loss after 4. (basically.. I don't recal the exact figures) - the point being, if you work a whole lot on something one day, and then don't touch it again for 3 or 4 days, you end up wasting time having to "redo" what you've forgotten.

[jazzyprof]

I agree that you should work consistently, daily on something until it is well in hand.  And yet, paradoxically, you will retain something in more permanent, secure memory after you've lost it completely and re-learnt it a few times.  So, while letting 3 or 4 days go before touching something again may be inefficient, it is not a complete waste of time.  Confusing, eh?    

[m1469]

Hi

Just another question from an intermediate player who's returned to the piano after a lengthy break (and with a vengeance!). Should you concentrate on just learning two or three pieces  and move on to others when you've mastered them (or at least brought yourself up to reasonable standard) or is it okay to be working on a whole lot at once?
I say this because in the six months since I've been playing again I've started on around 18  pieces (and there are more I'd like to start!). I can play about five accurately and at speed and the rest are at various stages of being learned. Of course I don't play each piece every day, I tend to concentrate on a couple for two or three days and then rotate. Is this an effective way to learn or should I be more selective?
Interested to know what some of you more experienced players think.

ada

Hi ada!  Welcome back to the piano.  Ultimately, only you can answer what is the most effective way for you to learn and that can only be done through trial and error AND observation (it may be useful for you to keep a journal detailing your successes and learning experiences).  Right now, it seems you are trying an approach that is new to you and it also sounds like you are right in the middle of it.  It is tough sometimes, to keep perspective on what we're accomplishing when we are just right in the middle of it all (at other times too).

As you are coming back (and with a vengence too  ) perhaps you have set some goals for yourself about what you wish to accomplish ?  It is a great time to do so if you have not. 

These are some statements I will assume from your post(s) about your desires to play and learn again:

1.  Piano and music are important to me on a deep level, AND I am aware of this.
2.  I would like to make progress as a musician and a person.
3.  I feel that studying the piano and associated repertoire will help me with number 2
4.  I am willing to engage the worker in me to reach my goals.
5.  I have an inner critic who wishes to do things the "right way" for myself.
6.  I am a beautiful person (he he... just accept it... he he)
7.  I wish to train and focus all of the elements listed above.
 
Are these accurate ?  And, Are you accomplishing these things ?

Now, some repertoire and practice-specific statements:

1.  I wish to gain a broad base in my repertoire accomplishments and musical understanding.
2.  I wish to read better.
3.  I wish to develop sound habits in my daily and monthly (and yearly) practicing.
4.  I wish to be efficient.
5.  I may wish to perform on some level, at some point.

Are these accurate and are you moving in this direction with your current program ?  It is a never ending process, to say the least.

Now, presonally, I find that working on more pieces at once helps me with all of the things listed above.  My only suggestion would be to consider more organization in your work.  Plan out what sections you are going to work in your sessions and work those everyday until you have mastered them.  Generally, daily repetition is more effective than is skipping days.  Try to conjecture how long it may take you to learn all 18 pieces to the level of your desiring, and divide this time accordingly.  This will also be a learning experience which will help to pave a more direct road for future endeavors.

Here are some threads on practice organization that you may want to look at :


More about what mound and jazzyprof are talking about:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,1825.msg13858.html#msg13858
(Accommodating practice times – 10 minute sessions – some mention on mental practice)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7810.msg78598.html#msg78598
(How to organise the breaking down of a piece over several days. Examples: CPE Bach Fantasia, Blow Sarabande, Chopin Cantabile; Chopin Scherzo no. 2)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4988.msg47452.html#msg47452
(Summary of links to optimise practising and planning)



And finally, here is a quote from Bernhard that I find inspiring and applicable at any stage in the game:

"By taking piano lessons for the first time we are registering within ourselves a desire to make progress. We must always take responsibility for that progress, for that which we seek lies not in the music school. Nor can it be found in Vienna or Julliard. Your teachers do not own it, nor can they give it to you. You cannot buy it or take it from someone else. What we are searching for when we sit at the piano in the heat of the summer or the frost of the winter is within us all the time. What is missing for most is the ability to appreciate it."



Enjoy

m1469

[mound]

I agree that you should work consistently, daily on something until it is well in hand.  And yet, paradoxically, you will retain something in more permanent, secure memory after you've lost it completely and re-learnt it a few times.  So, while letting 3 or 4 days go before touching something again may be inefficient, it is not a complete waste of time.  Confusing, eh?    

I think that's more along the lines of learning something completely, and then letting it go for an extended timeframe (6months, 1 year etc.) and then relearning it.  That is how you maintain repertoir in the long run.

letting 3 or 4 days go before touching something new again, while not a complete waste of time, is almost a complete waste of time, because you didn't really learn it the first day.


great post mayla!

[jazzyprof]

letting 3 or 4 days go before touching something new again, while not a complete waste of time, is almost a complete waste of time, because you didn't really learn it the first day.

Ah, that makes sense. 

[ada]

Thank you so much guys. You're all an inspiration.

onwards
ada