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Topic: golf question  (Read 2062 times)

Offline BoliverAllmon

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golf question
on: June 27, 2005, 11:07:26 PM
Ok how do you know when it is time to upgrade to a stiffer flexed shaft? I was having the hardest time hitting my driver straight. I have fixed the problem. I have to  make sure that my club head stays straight down the aiming line (for what seems like) 5 ft. after impact. I feel like I am nearly falling forward. If I take the same swing with my irons, I draw or hook the ball. Someone mentioned that it might be the flex. I can hit a 3-iron a nice 220 yds. but my driver will only go 240-250. Again, someone thought that it might be that the flex isn't snapping into the ball. what do you think?

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: golf question
Reply #1 on: June 28, 2005, 07:46:19 PM
I bought a "Killer Whale" driver a couple of years back. Too flexy, actually teed the ball up in line with my little toe.

Only ever hit a dozen good shots with it.

Threw it in lake.

Goodbye £250
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Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #2 on: June 28, 2005, 08:40:35 PM
I bought a "Killer Whale" driver a couple of years back. Too flexy, actually teed the ball up in line with my little toe.

Only ever hit a dozen good shots with it.

Threw it in lake.

Goodbye £250

you can get thing reshafted. I spent a massive 20 bucks at wal-mart for my driver. WOOHOO!!!!

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: golf question
Reply #3 on: June 28, 2005, 08:46:09 PM
good thinking

time for a swim
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Offline mikeyg

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Re: golf question
Reply #4 on: June 28, 2005, 08:58:04 PM
Ohhh. The BolMeister is a PS gold member.

My clubs are pretty cheap too, although they are a bit stiff, brcause I swing the club like a hockey stick.  Happy Gilmore like what?
I want an Integra.  1994-2001.   GSR.  If you see one, let me know.

www.johncareycompositions.com/forum

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #5 on: June 28, 2005, 11:32:57 PM
Ohhh. The BolMeister is a PS gold member.

My clubs are pretty cheap too, although they are a bit stiff, brcause I swing the club like a hockey stick.  Happy Gilmore like what?

if you want cheap you should see my irons. I bought them from some used golf store. They are 1960 sam snead blades. It cost me 30 bucks for the whole set. I love these clubs though. They seem to really work well for me. go figure.

Yes, I am Gold. Respect my Authority!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Offline timothy42b

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Re: golf question
Reply #6 on: June 29, 2005, 11:17:23 AM
Flex would be the last thing I would look at trying to solve a swing problem.

The idea that the flex somehow stores energy like a spring and releases it is pure garbage. 

The club head is a pure ballistic object at impact and the shaft might as well not be connected to it at all. 

By the way, the clubshaft is not bent back during the swing.  It bends forward. 
Tim

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 11:37:05 AM
Flex would be the last thing I would look at trying to solve a swing problem.

The idea that the flex somehow stores energy like a spring and releases it is pure garbage. 

The club head is a pure ballistic object at impact and the shaft might as well not be connected to it at all. 

By the way, the clubshaft is not bent back during the swing.  It bends forward. 

bent forward? how do you figure?

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 11:41:42 AM
Also I am more curious about the lack of distance with the driver. If I can hit a 3-iron 220 off the grass, why is my driver only going 20 more yds off the tee. I get very little loft of the drive, though impact tape shows I am hitting the ball on the sweet spot or slightly higher on the club face. That tells me that the clubface is delofted on impact. That is why I am curious about the flex.

Offline timothy42b

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Re: golf question
Reply #9 on: June 30, 2005, 04:08:45 PM
Yes, bent forward.

Most people have a mental image of the clubhead lagging behind, like a fishing rod bends backward under the weight of the bait when you accelerate the rod forward. 

It does not.  Video clearly shows the shaft bending forward (toward the ball) during the downswing. 

Two ways to explain it:  As the hands decelerate, there is torque applied to the grip.  Or, the center of mass of the clubhead is off-center, centrifugal force pulling down is at a slight angle.  (I have trouble with the latter explanation, because in the commonly drawn inertial frame of reference, there is no centrifugal force in the golf swing.  You can find one if you draw a rotating frame of reference, but I've never seen anyone who could handle the math for that.) 

Now, could the amount of flex in the shaft vary, and affect the effective loft?  Possibly, but I doubt it is the reason for your problem.  See, if you are delofted, then a stiffer shaft would increase that problem.  What if you drive with a 3 -wood off the tee, how does that higher loft work for you?
Tim

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #10 on: June 30, 2005, 06:01:06 PM
I don't really understand the concept of being bent forward. i have watched infomercials and they talk about flex snapping into the ball. also the hands shouldn't decelerate. They accelerate throught the ball.

neways my three wood has decent loft and travels around 260. I have even squeaked a couple 300 yders off the tee with it.

boliver

Offline contrapunctus

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Re: golf question
Reply #11 on: July 01, 2005, 03:28:49 AM
Yes, bent forward.

Most people have a mental image of the clubhead lagging behind, like a fishing rod bends backward under the weight of the bait when you accelerate the rod forward. 

It does not.  Video clearly shows the shaft bending forward (toward the ball) during the downswing. 

Two ways to explain it:  As the hands decelerate, there is torque applied to the grip.  Or, the center of mass of the clubhead is off-center, centrifugal force pulling down is at a slight angle.  (I have trouble with the latter explanation, because in the commonly drawn inertial frame of reference, there is no centrifugal force in the golf swing.  You can find one if you draw a rotating frame of reference, but I've never seen anyone who could handle the math for that.) 

Now, could the amount of flex in the shaft vary, and affect the effective loft?  Possibly, but I doubt it is the reason for your problem.  See, if you are delofted, then a stiffer shaft would increase that problem.  What if you drive with a 3 -wood off the tee, how does that higher loft work for you?



I dont know what video your watching but what you said about bending forward is pure crap. Go pick up a copy of golf digest and like at the swing sequences in there. And by the way the hand accelerate on the downswing making the shaft logically bent back.

Flex table is as follows


Xtra stiff     105+ club head speed
stiff              90-104
regular         75-89
senior           60-74


The less flex the farther the ball goes. Period. Look it up. All the pros use X-flex. Judging by your distance you prabaly need an S-flex shaft.
 
Medtner, man.

Offline timothy42b

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Re: golf question
Reply #12 on: July 01, 2005, 10:25:29 AM
I will be the first to admit I am not the world's greatest golfer.  Your distances put you well ahead of me in skill level.

However, the golf shaft bending forward is not crap.  High speed video clearly shows it, physics theory predicts.  It doesn't match our intuition but sometimes that's the way it is.  I have that Golf Digest book, The Swing, too, but it doesn't show shaft bending like you think it does. 

It is well known that the shaft does not store energy.  The only people who claim it does are the golf shaft salesmen.  In fact, the clubhead doesn't even need to be attached to the shaft at impact, as those hinged trainers show. 

The hands are decelerating at impact.  That is likely to lead to a long and contentious discussion - but again both high speed video and mathematical theory confirm it.  The term usually used is CoAm, short for Conservation of Angular Momentum.  I don't like that term because it neglects the forces involved, bu there is some validity to it in terms of the kinetic chain.  The larger heavier links in any kinetic chain decelerate as the end links accelerate. 

I would guess at your level, since you are making good contact, the way to increase your distance is through retaining the angle longer ala Bertholy.  That's what I'm working on and it seems to be helping a little, though I am still erratic.  Lost a bunch of balls and survived a cart wreck last weekend! 
Tim

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #13 on: July 01, 2005, 12:08:57 PM
I will be the first to admit I am not the world's greatest golfer.  Your distances put you well ahead of me in skill level.

However, the golf shaft bending forward is not crap.  High speed video clearly shows it, physics theory predicts.  It doesn't match our intuition but sometimes that's the way it is.  I have that Golf Digest book, The Swing, too, but it doesn't show shaft bending like you think it does. 

It is well known that the shaft does not store energy.  The only people who claim it does are the golf shaft salesmen.  In fact, the clubhead doesn't even need to be attached to the shaft at impact, as those hinged trainers show. 

The hands are decelerating at impact.  That is likely to lead to a long and contentious discussion - but again both high speed video and mathematical theory confirm it.  The term usually used is CoAm, short for Conservation of Angular Momentum.  I don't like that term because it neglects the forces involved, bu there is some validity to it in terms of the kinetic chain.  The larger heavier links in any kinetic chain decelerate as the end links accelerate. 

I would guess at your level, since you are making good contact, the way to increase your distance is through retaining the angle longer ala Bertholy.  That's what I'm working on and it seems to be helping a little, though I am still erratic.  Lost a bunch of balls and survived a cart wreck last weekend! 

is there any pictures you can find of the shaft bent forward?

Offline timothy42b

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Re: golf question
Reply #14 on: July 03, 2005, 08:26:16 AM
Pictures.  On the Single Axis Golf forum, the moderator (Peter) posted some, and a physicist named mandrin provided some calculations and graphics.

I tried a search and didn't come up with them, but I'll keep looking. 
Tim

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #15 on: July 03, 2005, 12:34:27 PM
please do I am curious about it.

boliver

Offline timothy42b

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Re: golf question
Reply #16 on: July 05, 2005, 02:51:14 PM
Could not find a photo, but try this link for a chart that shows minimum of 0.3 inches, maximum of 2.5 inches, for lead of clubhead at impact.
https://www.truetemper.com/shaftlab/comparison.html

I'll try to find a link to one of the discussions also. 
Tim

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: golf question
Reply #17 on: July 05, 2005, 08:35:03 PM
notice the picture on that website. the shaft is bent backwards right before impact and is snapping forward.

boliver
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