Piano Forum

Topic: Music Theory  (Read 2449 times)

Offline shoshin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
Music Theory
on: June 29, 2005, 09:27:12 PM
I would like to start composing some simple songs but I need a crash course in music theory.  What are the most important things to learn for composition in order of importance?  Let me highlight again I am interested in composing *simple* songs not try make a masterpiece composed by musical genius.  For starters assume I am going to use the Key of C major.  I obviously know the scale of C Major and the notes that make it up as well as some chords. But other than that I'm completely clueless.

Thank you.

Offline ludwig

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
Re: Music Theory
Reply #1 on: June 30, 2005, 11:48:39 AM
Hi shoshin,

Do you mean songs as in popular or just simple piano music or lieder?  ;D

I think composeres will have different methods of composition, even simple songs or pieces...Some might like to figure out what harmonies (i.e chords) to use first, then derive a melody to fit it...Others like to figure out the motifs first (melodic and/or rhythmic idea, very short in length) and then extend and elaborate it from there....Some do a matrix and use certain ideas and repeat them in different ways (like inversions, retrogrades, augmentation etc...), some use forms of music/structure to develop their themes (t+v), some uses borrowed fragments from other music and further them with new musical materials etc... There are many ways of composing, it depends on what style, what form, what instrumentation etc...you want.

If you decide to do your C major piece and have decided to use the tonal method and harmonies, you should know the cadences and chordal progressions, like what is the basis of your composition, i.e I IV V I and ii iii vi and dimisheds and augmented chords... Maybe you should try to work out a series of progressions? Or you could try the motivic idea and work out a short idea that is simple, and then develop it into more thematic materials (like modulations, fragmentation, extending etc...) I don't know what you want to compose so can't help you much on specifics...it'll be good if you gave some more info 
"Classical music snobs are some of the snobbiest snobs of all. Often their snobbery masquerades as helpfulnes... unaware that they are making you feel small in order to make themselves feel big..."ÜÜÜ

Offline Derek

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1884
Re: Music Theory
Reply #2 on: June 30, 2005, 12:52:44 PM
I think the two best ways to compose are as follows:

First of all, don't worry about music theory too much yet (or ever). Music is a very intuitive thing and you will find music theory frustrating until you have built a reasonable amount of intuition for composition. (maybe you won't find it frustrating, I'm basing this advice on my own experience)

That is to say, if it sounds right, it is.

1)
Get a software program like Finale. It'll give you a wizard of what instrument, key signature , time signature and tempo to start with, and then you can just start typing notes in.

Each note you click in sounds via MIDI, and you can play back your entire composition or parts of it at will. This can help you develop an intuition for composition much more rapidly than the Masters did (since they had to rely on musical imagery and memory in their mind as they wrote it down..or use a piano extensively or both)

2)
Start improvising on the piano. To get started, try making up some very short, repeatable musical riffs. They don't have to be themes or melodies yet, just some mildly interesting short phrases. Memorize these....record yourself playing.  You'll start building a musical vocabulary in this manner. After you get a lot of experience improvising you'll find you'll be able to compose piano pieces just by allowing your improvisations to coalesce.

If you happen to have an incredible amount of fun with either or both of these processes, then you are well on your way to composing pretty much anything you could imagine.

Offline pianonut

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1618
Re: Music Theory
Reply #3 on: June 30, 2005, 05:40:01 PM
theory is relative to the style that you will use.  if it is medieval then you have modes, baroque and classical, then you have western scale and corresponding sets of chords, romantic (the addition of more chromaticism, hidden melodies), and if it is modern - then you have everything at your disposal (no do's or dont's).  some people even make up symbols that weren't thought of before - or new chords.  this would be really neat to invent something new.

what i would do - not being a full fledged composer, but dabbling.  is to take a piece already written in the key of C major in all of the above styles and analyze them.  try to first write down the letter names of the notes in each chord.  and then arrange them in thirds so that they make sense  G B D (etc) in stacked thirds.  take the bottom note, and figure out what step of the scale it is.  that would tell you that this chord is a V in the scale of C because G is the fifth step.

once you have discovered the basic scales:  modal scales, diatonic scales, whole tone scales (follow a pattern of only whole tones), 12 tone rows, and your own individual thoughts on what makes up a scale - then you progress to making a pallette of all the chords that go with that scale.  and finally - as someone pointed out - what sounds good to you.

if you understand WHY it sounds good, you can keep using the formulas in future compositions. (now why can't i do this with math?)  theory is very mathematical because you have a number assigned to each step of the scale (even though in the scale that we know - there are 1/2 and whole steps - so that each step is not equal).  if you fudge with the steps - you come up with flatted notes (or diminished) or sharped notes (augmented) which then you can use also in chord formations.  it's all very complicated sounding, but quite easy if you get a theory workbook (with answers included).
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline llamaman

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
Re: Music Theory
Reply #4 on: June 30, 2005, 09:34:52 PM
You can try a theory book for beginners, like the ones by Vandendool.
Ahh llamas......is there anything they can't do?

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)

Offline galonia

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
Re: Music Theory
Reply #5 on: June 30, 2005, 10:43:31 PM
There is absolutely no need to know any theory in order to compose.

I have heard young children play little pieces they wrote themselves, but of course they didn't know how to notate their music.  They just play the little pieces.  If this music needed to be written down, anyone could notate it on their behalf.

If you are going to compose, you just do it - I've had years of formal training in harmony and melody writing and all that, but when I compose, I don't think about any of it, it's all intuition.  Of course, I'm not saying the knowledge of formal theory is unhelpful, but it is certainly not necessary.

Offline Rach3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 664
Re: Music Theory
Reply #6 on: July 01, 2005, 03:12:23 AM
Quote
Get a software program like Finale. It'll give you a wizard of what instrument, key signature , time signature and tempo to start with, and then you can just start typing notes in.

I strongly recommend against this. Music entry tools like finale are very good at just that, being a tool for notating stuff for other people to read. But you get no advantage composing straight into a computer! You're removed from the process, there's much less 'intuition' involved than if you were, say, improvising at a piano. Besides, you'd be likely to spend most your time on formatting, figuring out how to enter things or how to copy measures, etc.

Quote
There is absolutely no need to know any theory in order to compose.

And there's absolutely no need to have any food in order to cook a meal - when you can boil your own shoes instead.
"Never look at the trombones, it only encourages them."
--Richard Wagner

Offline jeremyjchilds

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 624
Re: Music Theory
Reply #7 on: July 01, 2005, 06:33:22 AM
I'm not sure exactly how simple you want to be, but try the  pentatonic scale (black keys).
sorry if this is really obvious
"He who answers without listening...that is his folly and his shame"    (A very wise person)

Offline abell88

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
Re: Music Theory
Reply #8 on: July 01, 2005, 07:23:04 PM
Here is *one* method for someone without much theory background who wants to begin composing in C major, as you asked. I'm not saying it's the best or that you'll stick with it, but it may help you get started.

1. Sit at the piano and play the C scale to get the C sound in your mind. Relax, put your fingers down and start noodling around (with your right hand) until you come up with something you like. You might want to start on C, E, or G and you will probably want to end on C.

2. Play it again, until you know you can play it consistently. Try to jot it down on manuscript paper.

3. Now to add chords: Every note of the C scale *may* be harmonized by one of these chords (there are many other chords available, but these three are the biggies that are good to start with):  C major (I) (C  E G) , F major (IV) (F A C), G major (V) (G B D).  So, supposing you have an A in the melody; the most likely chord to go with it is F major, because it has an A in the chord.

Note that the note C may be harmonized with either a C or an F chord, and G may be harmonized with either C or G chords.

Write the possible chords above the notes on your manuscript paper. Now try adding the chords while you play the melody.

4. A few notes about chords:
a. you don't necessarily need a chord for every note. Make sure the long notes are harmonized.
b. the most satisfactory finish will be a G chord followed by a C chord (this is called a V-I progression, and in Western music it says, "the end").
c. you will *probably* find the F chord to be used the least of the three.
d. if none of the three basic chords sounds right, try something else -- D minor (D F A) or A minor (A C E) for instance.
e. it is not necessary always to harmonize a note with a chord that contains the note.  You might find that you like the sound when you play an A in the melody with a C chord in the left hand, for example.
f. the G chord is more commonly followed by the C chord than by the F chord.
g. chords can be inverted to make them easier to play. Very commonly, the C chord will be played in root position (C E G), the F chord in 2nd inversion (C F A), and the G chord in 1st inversion (B D G). When played like this you can progress smoothly from one to the next.

As I say, this is one way to get started...hope that helps.

Offline thalberg

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1950
Re: Music Theory
Reply #9 on: July 07, 2005, 10:46:16 PM
In my opinion, the most important things you're needing are these (in order of importance, like you required):

Chord progressions in C major--most theory books have simple chart somewhere

Phrases and cadences--just find that chapter and read it

How to write a melody--counterpoint manuals have good advice here (follow every large leap with a step in the opposite direction, blah, blah, blah)

Later if you want to get fancy: learn the 5 main chromatic chords--NbII, It+6, V/V vii/V, and borrowed chords.
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
The Complete Piano Works of 16 Composers

Piano Street’s digital sheet music library is constantly growing. With the additions made during the past months, we now offer the complete solo piano works by sixteen of the most famous Classical, Romantic and Impressionist composers in the web’s most pianist friendly user interface. Read more
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert