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Topic: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O  (Read 1909 times)

Offline andhow04

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rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
on: July 04, 2005, 09:14:00 PM
i just can't figure out how to play this without a ton of  wrong notes! and unevenness. Maybe someone could describe the technique required ?! ?!
 :-\

Offline Dazzer

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #1 on: July 05, 2005, 02:01:31 PM
if you're referring to the 1st page (and similar passages)

work in chords. split them all into groups of three and go up and go down till you can get it accurately.

Offline andhow04

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #2 on: July 05, 2005, 02:04:53 PM
i guess this is where i get confused. When you bunch notes up in chords, you organize them so that you practice the mvoement between two chunks, right ? in this etude, is the movement always from eighth note (quaver) to eigth note? i dunno if that is the ideal way to divide the figues in this piece!

Offline Dazzer

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #3 on: July 05, 2005, 02:41:55 PM
well... i can't say more except that's how i did it. its all about the positioning of the hands.

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #4 on: July 06, 2005, 02:08:39 AM
I think the technique required for this Etude is a contraction/expansion of the hand.  YOu know with these figures going from smaller intervals always to octaves... also there is a high level of polyphony in the etude which may help with your unevenness.  Although the rhythm for much of it appears to be just even triplet sixteenths, the polyphonic rhythm within the figures is much more sophisticated.  I believe if you try and play this evenly, it will fail, because the true, inner rhythm is much more irregular.

Walter Ramsey

Offline andhow04

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #5 on: July 06, 2005, 04:13:46 PM
well... i can't say more except that's how i did it. its all about the positioning of the hands.

i think thats where i get confused, i am not sure how the hands should be opsitioned or what the movement is in between , or where is the movement. For exmaple in bar 1 (bar 1!!!!  :-\) going from first eigth note (first note A-flat) to second eighth note (first note D-flat), i miss the D-flat half the time, and then in the middle of the bar going from the high note (E-flat) to a ninth below (D natural) i'm alreadhy feeling tense and then there is always a "break' there, i can't get it to flow, and then my second figure gets pokey, and my thumb is late, and oh just a whole bunch of PROBLEMS ! 
Then in the recap, when it goes into 3 beats a bar (but writtein in hemiola), there are a few instances where it seems like you have to cross the middle fingers over Pinky, and i seem to miss those notes , the crossover note that is, well maybe 70 % of the time.
practicing "slow motion" hasn't helped because i really haven't figured out what exactly the movment is, to practice in slow motion !!!
Thanks

Offline dikai_yang

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #6 on: July 06, 2005, 04:23:32 PM
well, not nearly as difficult to memorize as any piece by bach...
the good thing about this is that most notes are sharp (left hand)
so not much problem with miss pressing octaves...
where as if everything is not sharp/flat, it's easy to miss-hit the adjacent notes...
---
the trick, memorize (get used to) the left hand motion first...
then you can focus on the right hand...
once the left hand is good, the right hand isn't all that bad...
the repeating note section, it depends on your piano
if you're lucky to have one of those pianos that have fast-repating keys
you'll feel it!!  but i do 4-3-2-1-3-2-1 instead of 4-3-2-1-4-3-2 by the previous poster...
and later in the repeating section immediately following the 4-3-2-1-3-2-1
use 1/5 (octave), 1-2-1-2-1 (for octaves starting on G#)
and 1/5 (octave), 2-1-2-1-2 (for octaves starting on F#)

Offline dikai_yang

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #7 on: July 06, 2005, 04:25:56 PM
i'm sorry folks, the previous post i meant to put it in the hungarian rapsody #2 post...
wrong post, discard please

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: rachmaninoff: op.39 no.1 :O
Reply #8 on: July 07, 2005, 10:18:44 PM
i think thats where i get confused, i am not sure how the hands should be opsitioned or what the movement is in between , or where is the movement. For exmaple in bar 1 (bar 1!!!!  :-\) going from first eigth note (first note A-flat) to second eighth note (first note D-flat), i miss the D-flat half the time, and then in the middle of the bar going from the high note (E-flat) to a ninth below (D natural) i'm alreadhy feeling tense and then there is always a "break' there, i can't get it to flow, and then my second figure gets pokey, and my thumb is late, and oh just a whole bunch of PROBLEMS ! 
Then in the recap, when it goes into 3 beats a bar (but writtein in hemiola), there are a few instances where it seems like you have to cross the middle fingers over Pinky, and i seem to miss those notes , the crossover note that is, well maybe 70 % of the time.
practicing "slow motion" hasn't helped because i really haven't figured out what exactly the movment is, to practice in slow motion !!!
Thanks




I wonder if my problem is learning this piece may be similar to yours.  Also I can clarify what I meant earlier on by practicing above all the polyphony of this etude. 
I was trying infernally to play those triplet-sixteenth passages all melodically, as 24 melodic notes per bar one following the other.  As a result of my part I found myself playing much too "fingery" and always an unsatisfying result. 
So First of all about your question of grouping and hand position, do in fact group by eigth notes.  That is where the harmony lies, and in this case the harmony is not overlapping.  If I rememebr correctly you can be assured that on each eighth note some harmony is expressed (in these passges that is) and that is that. 
The melodic content is on the inside, and there are several different possibilities for voicing.  Practicing this way we don't try and "connect" everything in perfect order, ie 1....2....3...4.............24 - that was my problem at least - and can be much freer to move our hands around the keyboard.
The principal movement is between groups of three notes, not during them, or interrupting them.  That movement can be practiced by moving the center of the hand around, not fingers.  But beyond that it is the polyphonic realization, I beileve, that will be most beneficial.

Walter Ramsey
 

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