If you would classify Ligeti as avant-garde, like I would, then I like a good deal of avant-garde music but am totally turned off by a lot too. For example, the first piece in Ligeti's Musica Ricercata (sp?) is totally comprised of A's, a monotonic piece! until the end, and the last note is a D. Phenomenal. The second piece in the set makes a very long appearance in the movie "Eyes Wide Shut". This piece is comprised of three different pitches, e#, f# and g. Beautiful.And if I'm really not right in what I consider avant-garde, forgive me and I will say it's a lack of understanding.Oh, and I hate John Cage.
hehehehe...... John Cage isnt always good but i like alot of avante-garde like ligeti's symphony for 100 metronomes, xenakis's herma and nancarrow's tango?.
And Ligeti is amongst one of my favorite composers.
rzewki's variations is on the whole not "avante-garde". variation no. 10 is, and the movements with theatrics like whistling i suppose are but it isnt really avante-garde. more 20/21st century.
After listinening to some of Ligeti's pieces I can't understand why this is considered to be 'music'.
Some popular arguments used by avant-garde composers:"This world is so bad, so music that describes it has to sound dissonant."If this world is already so bad, is there any reason to make it even worse by such "music"?"Tonality is nothing natural, it has been defined arbitrarily and is obsolete today."Tonal music will never be obsolete - as long as people listen to it, no matter if it's classical, jazz, pop, rock etc., children will get used to it from the beginning and regard it as something natural."Almost everything new in music was first rejected by the audience."OK, but after some years (or sometimes decades, maybe) people got used to everything - as long as the music was still tonal. Today most people still haven't got used to atonal music although it has been existing for about 100 years.It's hard to believe that there are still composers who think they can create something really new.Over 30 years ago, Penderecki already realized that this had become impossible and returned to tonal music.I'm quite sure that there is no future in experiments like Cage's - actually this kind of "music" has become obsolete. Composers will have to realize that music must be understandable just by hearing it if they want to be respected by more than just a few freaks.
I find some "avant-garde" composer like Lutoslawski and Ligeti very "understandable." It is a matter of personal taste though, I agree. There really is no point in arguing this topic though...(even though that is what I'm doing right now). You could even call Sorabji (the author of that quote) "avant-garde"...who as I remember frequently imitated Schoenberg. What composers specifially do you think Sorabji was refering to with that quote? DLu
It seems like my statement was a bit too radical… I just had to blow off some steam after I’ve been rejected by the conservatories where I wanted to study composition because my works were too traditional. So I’ll try to explain what I wanted to say.I wasn’t talking about Lutoslawski, Ligeti or Sorabji – they all knew that there are different ways of writing music, that it can be, for example, tonal or atonal, harmonic or dissonant; they did not exclude any of these components of music. Also, I really admire composers like Ives or Messiaen who had the courage to overstep the borders and pushed the development of music forward, and I’m sure that if Schönberg or Cage had not brought in their new ideas, someone else would have done it. It was a natural and necessary development, I don’t want to argue that; but today the limit is reached. Trying to create a really “new” music is like searching for a place on earth that is not on any map yet. The challenge for a contemporary composer should be to create his individual style by combining the existing possibilities – as Alfred Schnittke did, for example – instead of trying to write something even more shrill and extravagant.I don’t know which composers Sorabji was referring to, but I was thinking of those who exclude everything that sounds beautiful or that reminds the listener in any way of any kind of traditional music – such as the composition teachers at the conservatories where I’ve applied (not all of them, but the majority). They demand of you to know everything about harmony and counterpoint, but you are not allowed to use your knowledge because it’s not up-to-date. They don’t care about the fact that the musicians who play their music get sick of it – it is proven that too much dissonance impairs your health, and this is not a question of personal taste. It is true that it was necessary that someone brought the musical development to its limit; but this has been done, so now it’s time to rethink about it.Possibly my opinion about composition teachers is a little bit exaggerated… so I’m expecting your protest posts
made sense to me. I don't understand why people don't want to compose in the style of someone else. If I compose something and a respected musician tells me that it sounds like Beethoven or some other great composer, I think I would appreciate that remark.
that goes to show you don't have an empire state building -sized ego. if you had, and someone told you your works sound like beethoven, you'd snap "incult! this is way better stuff - more complex, more intricate! shut up if you don't know what you're talking about"
Also, in case you didn't know, the sheetmusic for Music Ricercata is available for free download here - https://www.abrahamespinosa.com/partitures%20pdf/Ligeti,%20Gyorgy%20-%20Musica%20ricercata.pdfI find his "key signatures" hilarious.Another crazy one was Nancarrow. Here's some of his "Tango?".So people were always talking about how difficult his music was. So I saw this and I thought, "Well that doesn't look that difficult!" Then I noticed the multiple time signatures, and thought it was impossible. When I finally aquired a recording, it amazed me that anyone would feel the need to waste their life to learn such a piece... it was perhaps one of the most irritating musical experiences I've ever had.