note accuracy and speed

[Tash]

killing 2 questions in the 1 thread 

no1) most probably due to a lack in good technique i'm super good at accidently hitting wrong notes- how do i fix that? probably something to do with practicing slower and getting the right movements into my head, but that's part of the 2nd part of this thread

2) i am a speed demon and whenever i try practicing slowly it's always back to speed by the end of it. sure i can just stick myself on a metronome but that annoys me when i'm putting in rubato and stuff. how do i tame myself and keep at a slow speed?!

[Floristan]

Patience and discipline.

I fight this tendency to play pieces at speed before I'm able.  I just want to play the piece!  My teacher is understanding but adamant that slow playing is key to getting the notes right (seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it).  Rubato is something that just has to wait until you're close to final tempo.  Other things, like phrasing, pedaling, and dynamics can be introduced relatively early in the process.  I know some people like to do all their slow practice without pedal, but my teacher doesn't want me to do that (except of course with Bach!)

I've done it enough under my teacher's guidance to know he's right.  Sometimes I do slow-motion playing to learn unfamiliar motions and to get my hands and arms used to the motions peculiar to the piece.  That has helped a lot, too.

My teacher says if I make mistakes while playing, I am most likely playing too fast.  99% of the time that's the problem.

Once a piece is learned to a certain level, say 50-75% of final tempo, I start adding rubato if called for.  (Rubato is a tricky thing, and much overused and wrongly applied, IMO, but that's another thread!)

Again, just my experience.

[bernhard]

Practise your aim (this requires real concentration and focus) so that you always hit the key right in the middle (major cause of inaccuracy is er... being inaccurate! ). One of the most efficient to do this is to practise silently (that is, use a digital piao and turn it off, or use a silent keyboard - just try it! you will be amazed).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Tash]

thanks lovelies most appreciated:) oh yeah i'd forgotten about the silent practice i should go back to that excellent:)

[wintervind]

Practise your aim (this requires real concentration and focus) so that you always hit the key right in the middle (major cause of inaccuracy is er... being inaccurate! ). One of the most efficient to do this is to practise silently (that is, use a digital piao and turn it off, or use a silent keyboard - just try it! you will be amazed).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

I find it interesting that you suggest playing a silent keyboard and I certainly agree because of a new technique I have been using to play with more accuracy and speed

I practice on a piano that has a mute and from time to time I use it.  It has done some remarkable things for clarity in my playing.

First of all, I am able to focus on each finger without all the overtones the piano usually produces

Second, because I can still hear the notes it has helped with bringing out melody notes more clearly ( I suppose this is a little vague as I would have to show really how it works for me!)

Thirdly, It dosen't piss off my neighbors if I practice a certain section of a piece for a long time

I know that ultimately our goal is to make music and I have heard it all from always playing scales musically to only playing as fast as you can think.
Yet there is a point when I reach a technical barrier  and  I have to find ways of pushing the piece to the next level.
Anyone have similar discoveries?

[bernhard]

I find it interesting that you suggest playing a silent keyboard and I certainly agree because of a new technique I have been using to play with more accuracy and speed

I practice on a piano that has a mute and from time to time I use it.  It has done some remarkable things for clarity in my playing.

First of all, I am able to focus on each finger without all the overtones the piano usually produces

Second, because I can still hear the notes it has helped with bringing out melody notes more clearly ( I suppose this is a little vague as I would have to show really how it works for me!)

Thirdly, It dosen't piss off my neighbors if I practice a certain section of a piece for a long time

I know that ultimately our goal is to make music and I have heard it all from always playing scales musically to only playing as fast as you can think.
Yet there is a point when I reach a technical barrier  and  I have to find ways of pushing the piece to the next level.
Anyone have similar discoveries?

Silent practice is a powerful remedy for specific situations (a bit like antibiotics – you should use them very carefully, and if possible avoid them – but when appropriate they can work miracles).

Have a look here for some very interesting discussion  on silent practice:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2075.msg17593.html#msg17593
(silent practice and its advantages)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2298.msg19672.html#msg19672
(Practice environment – the Virgil Clavier)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2368.msg20470.html#msg20470
(Virgil clavier & silent practice – Ted gives some good information. – how Arrau used one)


And back to the original topic of accuracy, I’ve just remembered these old threads:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2720.msg23353.html#msg23353
(How to practice aim and accuracy – looking at the LH and giving verbal instructions to the RH – Full discussion on left and right brain).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2552.msg22037.html#msg22037
(Accuracy – causes for inaccuracy – One possible solution: repeated note-groups)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[jeremyjchilds]

I had a similar problem a few years ago, My fingers would slip off of bladk notes, and play two white notes at once. If they weren't doing that, then they would lack uniformity from finger to finger. One thing that has really helped me is using arm weight instead of finger weight.

When you use finger weight, your hand kind of hovers over the keys (supported by your bicep muscle) and you push down with your fingers to play notes...The problem with this is that if you hover too much, your fingers can lack context from one key to the next and hiccup mistakes are a lot more common.

If you allow your arm weight to transfer from the back of your arm, over your wrist, and then to your fingertips, this will ground your fingers more effectively to the keys. What you need to do is to think of transferring this arm weight from one finger to the next, from note to note and as soon as your fingers become confident with the intervals, aim is usually improved a lot, since the piece tends to take on a wholsitic aspect, rather than a series of notes.

This took me a long time to grasp, but it has really helped my sight-reading, tech and accuracy. You can't really explain this over a post, but ask your teacher to explain this to you. it worked for me!!

[BoliverAllmon]

Bernhard, you feel you should avoid silent practice? why is this?

[xvimbi]

My two cents:

I think accuracy is closely related to a well-developed body map, combined with a well-developed keyboard map. This, in turn, is related to the issue of playing without looking at the keyborad (i.e. sightreading, or playing blindfolded, or looking dreamily at the clouds while the audience is admiring the performer.

Developing a body map takes a lot of time, but is ultimately indispensable. Juggling (Bernhard's favorite) is a great way, and so is any activity as long as one is paying attention. The same thing goes for developing a keyboard map.

Just to make sure: A keyboard map means knowing what the distance is between, for example, 3 notes, an octave or a jump from C1 to C4. A body map means knowing how to move so that these distances are accurately covered.

Silent practice is, in a way, an isolated exercise. We know what Bernhard thinks about isolated exercises, and I can only assume that it is the same reasons why he doesn't advocate too much silent practice. On the other hand, he did describe the potential benefits in earlier posts (links above), so, as with any such exercise, personal affinity should decide over using or not using it.

I do like silent practice for another reason. It has to do with focus. It is impossible, and in my opinion counterproductive, to focus on a single issue (e.g. how the fingers move) while playing a piece or practicing. The reason is that focusing (concentrating on) at the same time means neglecting everything else. So, by focusing on one aspect, one easily misses what might be going wrong somewhere else. Perhaps the problem with the fingers is not in the fingers, but in how I use my shoulders, so focussing on my fingers will not allow me to solve the problem. I may even come up with "solutions" that will introduce more problems. One really has to take everything in simultaneously to make good progress.

Silent practice takes away sound. Therefore, I don't have to ignore sound, because it is not there in the first place. Focussing now is no longer an exercise in cutting out as much information as possible, which might be dangerous as just explained. Instead, one can take in all the information and process it much more easily.

So, there are aspects that can be practiced well in an isolated fashion. Most of them can actually be practiced away from the piano.

[bernhard]

Bernhard, you feel you should avoid silent practice? why is this?

Er… I thought I was advocating silent practice…

[Tash]

yeah i've found that my concentration lasts longer whilst doing the silent practie because i have to think of the pitch myself, thus makeing it easier to stay at a slow tempo and focus on each individual note so yay!

[wintervind]

Another thought just came to mind

Glenn Gould would practice with a vacuum cleaner running next to the piano

HMMM - maybe thats like silent practice?


 

[Tash]

oh my dad takes care of that for me- he seems to have absolutely no common sense whatsoever and starts vacuuming the house whilst i'm pianoing i'm like HELLO i need to hear myself. he also did that when i kicked him out to watch an opera on video- so he starts up the vacuum cleaner so i can't hear it- where is the logic in that??!!

[nick]

killing 2 questions in the 1 thread 

no1) most probably due to a lack in good technique i'm super good at accidently hitting wrong notes- how do i fix that? probably something to do with practicing slower and getting the right movements into my head, but that's part of the 2nd part of this thread

2) i am a speed demon and whenever i try practicing slowly it's always back to speed by the end of it. sure i can just stick myself on a metronome but that annoys me when i'm putting in rubato and stuff. how do i tame myself and keep at a slow speed?!

Accuracy in my opinion would come from slowing down and making sure your fingers are on the keys before depressing them. Lots and lots of this before moving up in speed somewhat, but never to the point of tension or difficulty. Performance speed is not practice speed is one of my favorite motto's.

Nick

[i_m_robot]

speed/accuracy is like creating a character in a game

you start of with a set number of points which you give to either accuracy or speed

you then earn points by practicing

speed is seen as an advantage in this game so the cost of giving points to speed is taking a little from accuracy

adding to accuracy however increases speed, but ever so slightly and also increases the cost of speed points

so going straight for speed leaves accuracy at a dead end

but going for accuracy actually slightly helps speed

so the proper balance must be found

[nick]

speed/accuracy is like creating a character in a game

you start of with a set number of points which you give to either accuracy or speed

you then earn points by practicing

speed is seen as an advantage in this game so the cost of giving points to speed is taking a little from accuracy

adding to accuracy however increases speed, but ever so slightly and also increases the cost of speed points

so going straight for speed leaves accuracy at a dead end

but going for accuracy actually slightly helps speed

so the proper balance must be found

little confusing but it sounds like you lean toward accuracy, which is always what I do. I have found through trial and error that the focus on speed will surely lead to tension which is like garlic to a vampire. We are an inpatient group, expecting quick results. Not possible with correct playing in my opinion. I have found that you can play much quicker incorrectly, with tension, than correctly without tension, intitially, and this is what caused confusion to me. What a lesson to learn. Many, many hours of wasted effort. No hurry though, as long as I get it eventually.

Nick

[shoshin]

I go for messy sloppy playing over accuracy (if accuracy is gonna slow down the piece).  I think i got this attitude from the great guitarists Jimmy Page and Hendrix. 

I'm not sure  if this is a good or bad thing for the piano though, but I just love playing a piece and slopping over some extremely complex parts(for me) in order to play the whole piece.  I try really hard to smooth out the sloppy parts though through parallel sets and practice but these parts take weeks for me to sort out and so I slop over them when performing for someone.

And when I say slop I mean I know the basic body motions but I dont always hit the key decisively so it sounds full and right, and sometimes i'll miss it completely and hit another note next to it.

I think the audiences ears are more concerned about the rhythm and speed. A few bad notes here and there and who's to know?

[i_m_robot]

little confusing but it sounds like you lean toward accuracy

yep

but some speed is also necessary