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Topic: When can you give up a teacher?  (Read 2046 times)

Offline pet

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When can you give up a teacher?
on: July 08, 2005, 01:42:54 AM
One of my biggest fears..is not having a teacher, and having to learn pieces on my own without any type of feedback from a piano teacher.  I'm 20 years old, and I have had a piano teacher since I was 5.  I've always felt motivated to practice, because I had something to practice for.  I'm a music major in college, but I don't want to be a performer, but to teach music theory.  I have always felt that when I don't have a teacher, I will not practice as much, because I wouldn't really have any recitals to play for.  Also, I will encounter a piece that I don't think I can do on my own.  So in other words, how do you become your best teacher?

Now, I'm not saying I don't learn peices on my own....it's just that I know I have a teacher to play them for...a teacher to correct my mistakes (even though most of the time there isn't much to correct, because I'm very particular person)....if that even makes any sense. ::)  Maybe I always need an "experts" approval, a teacher that have seen many things in their time and can give me some pointers.

Offline pianohopper

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 02:26:13 AM
I split up with a teacher a couple years ago and didn't really pursue another teacher bcuz i was able to get help at skool...but I guess it's like dating: there's more fish in the sea, and eventually someone's going to come along who will do incredible things for your music.. .fortunately I have found someone else...

But when a teacher can no longer help you it's up to both of you to recognize that, and if they really have your best intersts at heart they'll realize that it's time to move on too.
"Today's dog in the alley is tomorrow's moo goo gai pan."  ~ Chinese proverb

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #2 on: July 08, 2005, 02:35:52 AM
It doesn't seem like the teachers you've had in the past have taught you the most important part of learning: self-sufficiency.  You can't have teachers forever and you'd have to be able to learn on your own.

Offline m1469

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #3 on: July 08, 2005, 04:02:53 AM
Hi pet, there are a number of very important issues concerning this.   I think it would be useful to look closely at your first sentence and think about what exactly it is that seems scary to you about not having a teacher.  Underneath that fear, I would say there is a fear of failure, a fear of lack, and a fear of not fulfilling one's potential.  A fear that one's development is dependent on others more than oneself.

One part to this is knowing what you want and having an idea of how to fulfill this.   If you know you need a teacher in order to reach your goals, aren't you being your own best teacher already ?  You are already aware of what you need and you are already watching for that to play out.  Do you understand ?   If somebody comes into your life that you did not previously know you needed, it is still you who recognizes the need and fulfills it in whatever way it is appropriate, including the decision one makes to study with a particular teacher.  This attraction to that which one percieves of as needing, never stops, and is something we have all been doing since birth, whether we have been aware of it or not.

The desire to have a teacher to correct our mistakes and give us approval is a deep personal desire to do things right.  The more we ourselves are aware of our own desire to do things correctly for ouselves, the more ready we are to accept whatever form that comes in.  Ultimately, it begins with our own intentions.  We can feel our best teacher in our bones even if the face is not always apparent.  The truth is, we never need to become someone that we are not already.  We just have to become more aware of who we are.  If you were not already your own best teacher, you would not have the judgement within that is required to learn anything from anybody.  On some level, you must accept something as, in your own best interest.  So who does one's potential truly rest on ?  Eventually, one must realize their own ability to learn, which could include scads and scads of teachers, or one will never fufill one's potential anyway.  If a person forever fails to recognize one's own power to learn and achieve, all accomplishments will seem empty.  But in my opinion, this does not need to be coldly forced but can be done gently.

In learning from other people, I think that for every lesson we need to learn from being in contact with another, the other needs just as much to help us learn in this way.   There are people in the world for whom fulfilling one's potential seems to rest just as much on the need to share information with someone else, as that someone else's potential seems to rest on the need to recieve it from the one who needs to share.

Yes, we WILL always have teachers because we always need to learn.   Yes, we will forever need to have mistakes corrected and we will forever need to feel the approval of a job well done.  But even if it appears to come from somebody else, it requires our own acceptance of these things to be truly effective toward our growth.  It must always come form our own heart.

I think you are already your own best teacher; becoming more and more aware of this can be an adventure rather than a heart ache.  It will take whatever form your highest sense of self will allow it.  Your own desire to follow your intentions will eventually push you out of any circumstance that is no longer conducive, as is, to serving your purpose.

Just some thoughts on a subject which I myself, am working to understand.  Thanks for bringing it up  :)


m1469
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline pet

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #4 on: July 08, 2005, 01:54:54 PM
Thanks guys for answering!  I guess I have to realize that I can be my best teacher, I just have to trust myself more, and not feel that I have to have approval from someone else.  Other people have suggested that I should become a teacher myself, and that would really help me see that what I know is useful to someone else.

Offline Kohai

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #5 on: July 08, 2005, 02:01:19 PM
I would think it is also important to realize that what you know is useful to yourself.

Kohai
“ Life and death are light as a feather, but obligation, obligation is heavy as a mountain.”

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #6 on: July 08, 2005, 04:47:02 PM
Even if you don't have a teacher. Have knowledgeable friends that you play for and get feedback from. I know some people like to do this.

Offline pet

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #7 on: July 08, 2005, 07:42:22 PM
I will begin to realize that Kohai, and that's a good idea of playing for someone once in a while to see what pointers they can give me, Boliver!

Offline m1469

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #8 on: July 08, 2005, 08:13:06 PM
Hi, again.  Pet, I am happy to hear that you are becoming clearer on what you feel you need.
 
I also just wanted to add a couple of things.  I have been thinking further on this thread and while I was accompanying for a voice lesson just hours ago I circumstantially listened in as the teacher announced this favorite line : "My job is to make myself obsolete".  

It struck me at that moment that, while I am a teacher and I do agree with this concept, these words alone do not in ANY WAY explain what that actually means.  What exactly is that supposed to mean to the student?    AND, how exactly is stating that kind of thing to the student supposed to help the student get there ?  I have, as a student, struggled very much with this.  It should not be mysterious, in my opinion.

Just after this teacher announced this, I found myself vehemetly continuing this conversation within my private thoughts to arrive at the following:

What kind of teaching leads to a teacher becoming "obsolete", or a student becoming self-sufficient ?  I think it sufficiently breaks down to the teacher helping in/providing the following three things/areas :

1.  Tools to learn
2.  Understanding how to use them
3.  Self-Awareness as to one's capability in using them effectively

It is only after number 3 is reached (which I think is probably the most difficult to "teach" ) does a student truly become "self-sufficient".  Hopefully teachers take this concept of becoming "obsolete" very seriously.

It sounds to me, pet, like you have reached sufficiently, the first 2, it is just a matter of awareness now.  What things may lead to awareness ?  Feedback.  Feedback is very important and we are always reciveing some kind of feedback, even when it appears that nothing is happening (nothing happening can still be feedback).  It can be achieved in numerous ways and found in various forms.  Feedback is one of the main reasons to have a teacher (feedback itself is really the informer).   One wants to learn how to recognize feedback in various forms, and which kind of feedback is the most helpful for one in a given moment or point in one's life. 

Keep up the good work.


m1469  :)
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline Bob

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #9 on: July 09, 2005, 12:14:15 AM
You can give up on a teacher whenever you want -- if they're not teaching you anything, if they don't teach what you want...   it's your call.

You can pay a teacher to make decision for you and guide your learning.  You can also do some or all of this yourself.

Teachers can hold the student back in some ways.  The decisions the teacher makes for the student are decisions the student doesn't have the opportunity to make.  Not that a teacher isn't great, but I think the teacher can be a crutch for the student sometimes, actually hindering that independence.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline thalberg

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #10 on: July 09, 2005, 04:51:14 PM
Most professional pianists quite taking lessons in their mid to late twenties.

Since I have become an adult, I've found less use for weekly piano lessons.  At the beginning of the learning process, there just aren't any questions.  I can read the notes, rhythms, dynamic markings, and I know how to execute 99.9% of the technical passages.

At the end of the learning process, when the laborious work is already done, then I need help with the finishing touches.  For this, I simply find someone I trust (it takes some looking!) and play for them half a dozen times and get their input.  One time, it was a man my exact same age (27 at the time)  who gave me all the finishing touches I needed on Prokofiev 7--his dissertation was on that piece.  Another time, it was a former professor of mine who really touched up my Goldberg Variations.  Each time, I just needed a boost across the finish line--six lessons or less, right at the end of the process.  This is a good approach.  When I was 20 like you, I never would have been ready for that approach.  You'll be surprised how much will happen in just a few years.

Offline m1469

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #11 on: July 09, 2005, 04:58:18 PM
An enthusiastic *YES* to thalberg.
"The greatest thing in this world is not so much where we are, but in what direction we are moving"  ~Oliver Wendell Holmes

Offline pet

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Re: When can you give up a teacher?
Reply #12 on: July 10, 2005, 01:06:31 AM
WOW, I'm really enjoying these responses...their very informative!  I will look at your pointers m1469, and what a great idea Thalberg, and what you said Bob is so true....sometimes a person doesn't even need a teacher, it just takes the student to realize it.
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