ANOTHER concerto ranking

[tabris]

Sorry about another one of these!  But this time it's not my fault!  Really...   Actually one of my friends was really curious and wanted to see how these stacked up with each other.  So anyways, here we go.

Rank these in terms of easiest to hardest

Beethoven 1-5
Chopin 1-2
Prokofiev 1-3
Rach 1-4, Paganini Rhapsody
Saint-Saens 4, 5
Brahms 1-2
Schumann
Grieg
Liszt 1,2,Totentanz
Macdowell 2

Sorry it's a lot.  Oh and don't worry if you're not familiar with some of them.  Just rank the ones you can (or feel like  ).

[steinwayguy]

https://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php?topic=2759.0

[tabris]

Haha, that's works!  Thanks a lot.  Just one more question.  Any comments on the Macdowell.  I don't really know anything about his music so I'm kinda interested.  Thanks a bunch.

[steinwayguy]

Never heard (of/about) the MacDowell. Sorry. 


The list I provided the link for I think is pretty much dead on.

[musicsdarkangel]

I just don't get it.


EVERYONE underestimates the difficulty of the Beethoven 4th.


Has anyone actually played it, or seen the music and followed a DVD/recording?


I saw the music, and listened, and the first movement alone was insane (all 16th note runs every which way in both hands, double trills, etc.)


A friend of mine is playing it.


Just imagine how hard it would be to tackle the whole thing.

Also, putting the Strauss Burleske above the Franck symphonic variations and putting the 13 minute Totentanz above the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody is a joke.

[Skeptopotamus]

im bored.  my connection is ***.  I've got nothing better to do right now.


Rediculously Virtuostic:
Alkan Solo Concerto
Busoni Concerto
Carter Piano Concerto
Corigliano Concerto for Piano and Orchestra
Danielpour Metamorphosis for Piano and Orchestra
Finnissy Complete Concertos
Ligeti Concerto
Sorabji Complete Concertos
Xenakis Palimpsest
Xenakis Eonta


Extremely Virtuostic:
Babbitt Piano Concerto
Barber Concerto Op. 38
Brahms Concerto No. 2
Cage Concerto for Piano and Orchestra
Gorecki Concerto
Liebermann Concerto No. 2
Nyman "The Piano Concerto"
Rachmaninov Concerto No. 3
Schoenberg Concerto


Very Virtuostic:
Bartok Concerto No. 2
Bartok Concerto No. 3
Beethoven Concerto No. 4
Brahms Concerto No. 1
Khackaturian Piano Concerto
Messiaen Oiseaux Exotiques
Messiaen Des Canyons aux Etoiles
Moszkowski Piano Concerto
Liebermann Piano Concerto No. 1
Perle Piano Concerto No. 1
Perle Piano Concerto No. 2
Prokofiev Concerto No. 2
Prokofiev Concerto No. 4
Prokofiev Concerto No. 5
Rachmaninov Concerto No. 2
Rachmaninov Concerto No. 4
Strauss Burlesque
Stravinsky Concerto for Piano and Winds
Tchaikovsky Concerto No. 1
Ustovolskaya Concerto


Virtuostic:
Bartok Concerto No. 1
Beethoven Concerto No. 5
Franck Variations
Liszt Solo Concerto
Liszt Totentanz
Macdowell Piano Concerto No. 1
Macdowell Piano Concerto No. 2
Prokofiev Concerto No. 3
Rachmaninov Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini
Ravel Concerto in G
Ravel Left Hand Concerto
Saint-Saens Concerto No. 2
Saint-Saens Concerto No. 4
Schnittke Piano Concerto
Tchaikovsky Concerto No. 2
Tchaikovsky Concerto No. 3


Difficult:
Beethoven Concerto No. 3
Chopin Concerto No. 1
Chopin Concerto No. 2
Gershwin Concerto in G
Gubaidulina Concerto for Piano and Strings
Janacek Concertino
Khackaturian Rhapsody
Liszt Concerto No. 1
Liszt Concerto No. 2
Poulenc Concerto
Prokofiev Concerto No. 1
Saint-Saens Concerto No. 5
Schumann Concerto in A Minor


Challenging:
Beethoven Concerto No. 1
Beethoven Concerto No. 2
Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
Grieg Piano Concerto
Mendelssohn Piano Concerto
Mozart Concerto No. 20
Mozart Concerto No. 23
Mozart Concerto No. 24
Mozart Concerto No. 27
Nyman Where the Bee Dances

[happyface94]

Both the Chopin deserve to be ranked up. And I would put the Rach 1 in your virtuosistic, since it is harder than the schumann. But both Chopin are harder than the Rach 1 and probably as hard as the Saens 2.

I would also lower the Rach 2, although it surely has a place in its cathegory, but probably in the lower part of it.

[pianonut]

thanks skeptotamus for the list!  leroy anderson wrote a cool piano concerto, too, and i want to play it.  i don't usually play something based upon difficulty - but, more how it sounds.

[steinwayguy]

That is a horrible list.

Here's why:
1. Rachmaninoff 3, Brahms 2 > Alkan
2. Your ranking of Bartok 3 is absolutely ridiculous. It is generally considered one of the easier concerti in the repertoire, yet you placed it with Bartok 2, which is generally considered equal to Rachmaninoff 3rd and Brahms 2nd. what?
3. Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini is far more difficult than the Second Concerto.
4. Prokofiev 2 is grossly underrated here. It is equally as challenging as Rach 3, Brahms 2, and Bartok 2.
5. Saying that the Ravel concerti are as difficult as Prokofiev 3, terrible.
6. Both the Chopin concerti are more difficult than Ravel
7. The Liszt concerti are as difficult as the Chopin.
8. You decided to just throw all those Mozart at the bottom to be cute, I guess. Mozart D Minor and B-flat are as hard as Beethoven 3, there's no doubt about that.

etc.

[Waldszenen]

In my opinion (I'm attacking no one here), you should only be able to give a proper judgment if you have experience in playing or learning the pieces being ranked.

[steinwayguy]

In my opinion (I'm attacking no one here), you should only be able to give a proper judgment if you have experience in playing or learning the pieces being ranked.

And I have worked on
Rachmaninoff 3
Bartok 3
Rachmaninoff 2
Liszt 2
Chopin 1
Mozart 23
Beethoven 3

mmk?

[musicsdarkangel]

That is a horrible list.

Here's why:
1. Rachmaninoff 3, Brahms 2 > Alkan
2. Your ranking of Bartok 3 is absolutely ridiculous. It is generally considered one of the easier concerti in the repertoire, yet you placed it with Bartok 2, which is generally considered equal to Rachmaninoff 3rd and Brahms 2nd. what?
3. Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini is far more difficult than the Second Concerto.
4. Prokofiev 2 is grossly underrated here. It is equally as challenging as Rach 3, Brahms 2, and Bartok 2.
5. Saying that the Ravel concerti are as difficult as Prokofiev 3, terrible.
6. Both the Chopin concerti are more difficult than Ravel
7. The Liszt concerti are as difficult as the Chopin.
8. You decided to just throw all those Mozart at the bottom to be cute, I guess. Mozart D Minor and B-flat are as hard as Beethoven 3, there's no doubt about that.

etc.

No need to be anal.

You're wrong about Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a theme by Pagannini.

Just because of how akward the 2nd concerto is, they are both about equal to eachother.

And this is coming from someone who is currently working on the Rhapsody and sightreading the 2nd.

You would think I would be biased towards the difficulty of the RHapsody, but you are simply incorrect.

[steinwayguy]

No need to be anal.

You're wrong about Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a theme by Pagannini.

Just because of how akward the 2nd concerto is, they are both about equal to eachother.

And this is coming from someone who is currently working on the Rhapsody and sightreading the 2nd.

You would think I would be biased towards the difficulty of the RHapsody, but you are simply incorrect.

Except nearly everyone on this forum, and even those not on this forum, would agree that the Paganini is harder than the Second Concerto.

[Skeptopotamus]

That is a horrible list.

Here's why:
1. Rachmaninoff 3, Brahms 2 > Alkan
2. Your ranking of Bartok 3 is absolutely ridiculous. It is generally considered one of the easier concerti in the repertoire, yet you placed it with Bartok 2, which is generally considered equal to Rachmaninoff 3rd and Brahms 2nd. what?
3. Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini is far more difficult than the Second Concerto.
4. Prokofiev 2 is grossly underrated here. It is equally as challenging as Rach 3, Brahms 2, and Bartok 2.
5. Saying that the Ravel concerti are as difficult as Prokofiev 3, terrible.
6. Both the Chopin concerti are more difficult than Ravel
7. The Liszt concerti are as difficult as the Chopin.
8. You decided to just throw all those Mozart at the bottom to be cute, I guess. Mozart D Minor and B-flat are as hard as Beethoven 3, there's no doubt about that.

etc.

point by point...

1.  I said Alkan SOLO Concerto.  If you're gonna try to tell me the Rachmaninov 3 is as difficult as the 60 minute Alkan Solo Concerto I'd laugh in your face.

2.  Yeah I agree the Bartok Concerto No. 3 should be moved down on the list.  I think I must have accidently put it there honestly.  Move it down one.  But the Bartok 2 in my personal opinion is overrated in difficulty.

3.  The Rhapsody is not as hard as Concerto No. 2.  You claim that everyone on here will agree with you but when there was a thread on this the Rhapsody was considered either the easiest or second easiest on most people's lists.

4.  The Prokofiev Concerto No. 2 IS on the same difficulty level block as the Bartok 2.  So what steinwayguy...

5.  I personally think the Ravel Concerti, or at the very least the Concerto in G is absolutely as difficult as the Prokofiev Concerto No. 3.

6.  Chopin Concerti are definitely not as difficult as the Ravel, and don't be all like "well you shouldn't talk if you don't have any experience" because I do on that particular point.

7.  The Liszt Concerti are as difficult as the Chopin???  Maybe that's why I put them in the same difficulty category eh?

8.  Firstly, I'm already cute ^^  But the Mozart Concerti are NOT as difficult as the Beethoven 3 technically; they are probably more difficult on a musical level but this was based on general technical difficulty.


Remember these are just my personal opinions and what is difficult for one person isn't always the same for the next guy.

[musicsdarkangel]

Except nearly everyone on this forum, and even those not on this forum, would agree that the Paganini is harder than the Second Concerto.

Speak for yourself.  Koji (Who has had experiences with both) and Rachmaninoff HIMSELF disagree.

Hell, Rachmaninoff finds his 3rd easier than his 2nd.  THAT is the awkwardness of the second concerto.

What leads you to believe so strongly in what you say?  There is no definite answer.  Give me some sources.  Come on, work with me here.  You seem confident..... but I don't see the reason to be.

You need to back up your "facts"  because in the thread comparing the Pagannini to the 2nd concerto, there were mixed answers.  Go back and see for yourself.

[steinwayguy]

Speak for yourself.  Koji (Who has had experiences with both) and Rachmaninoff HIMSELF disagree.

Hell, Rachmaninoff finds his 3rd easier than his 2nd.  THAT is the awkwardness of the second concerto.

What leads you to believe so strongly in what you say?  There is no definite answer.  Give me some sources.  Come on, work with me here.  You seem confident..... but I don't see the reason to be.

You need to back up your "facts"  because in the thread comparing the Pagannini to the 2nd concerto, there were mixed answers. Go back and see for yourself.

You haven't provided any proof that the second concerto is for sure more difficult than the Paganini. Why? It can't be done.

point by point...

1.  I said Alkan SOLO Concerto.  If you're gonna try to tell me the Rachmaninov 3 is as difficult as the 60 minute Alkan Solo Concerto I'd laugh in your face.

2.  Yeah I agree the Bartok Concerto No. 3 should be moved down on the list.  I think I must have accidently put it there honestly.  Move it down one.  But the Bartok 2 in my personal opinion is overrated in difficulty.

3.  The Rhapsody is not as hard as Concerto No. 2.  You claim that everyone on here will agree with you but when there was a thread on this the Rhapsody was considered either the easiest or second easiest on most people's lists.

4.  The Prokofiev Concerto No. 2 IS on the same difficulty level block as the Bartok 2.  So what steinwayguy...

5.  I personally think the Ravel Concerti, or at the very least the Concerto in G is absolutely as difficult as the Prokofiev Concerto No. 3.

6.  Chopin Concerti are definitely not as difficult as the Ravel, and don't be all like "well you shouldn't talk if you don't have any experience" because I do on that particular point.

7.  The Liszt Concerti are as difficult as the Chopin???  Maybe that's why I put them in the same difficulty category eh?

8.  Firstly, I'm already cute ^^  But the Mozart Concerti are NOT as difficult as the Beethoven 3 technically; they are probably more difficult on a musical level but this was based on general technical difficulty.


Remember these are just my personal opinions and what is difficult for one person isn't always the same for the next guy.

4. I had already said Bartok 2 should be moved up, and when I say Prokofiev 2 is as hard as Bartok 2, I mean it should be moved up too. It's not that hard to figure out.
5. I don't know how you think that about the Ravel concerti.
7. When I say the Liszt concerti are as difficult as the Chopin concerti, and I already said the Chopin concerti should be moved up, it isn't terribly difficult to reason that the Liszt should be too.
8. I firmly believe that Mozart D Minor is as technically difficult as Beethoven 3.

[Skeptopotamus]

I'm not denying that the Bartok 2 or Prokofiev 2 are extremely difficult but to move them up would mean putting them in the same category as the Barber, Babbitt or Cage, and that's just not reasonable.  The Rach 3 is definitely on the low end of that list and honestly I think I probably just put it in that category to avoid getting flamed.  But Ravel is particularly difficult to ME and I won't deny that I am biased as far as discerning the difficult of the Ravel Concerti, but I don't think I'm completely unjustified.  They are certainly quite difficult; even you have to admit that.

[happyface94]

I think it is obvious the concertoes need to be divided in more categories.

[BoliverAllmon]

I personally always thought that the rhapsody was easier than the 2nd by far. but that was just my impression.

[Waldszenen]

Trust me, it is.

[tabris]

Sorry.  It looks like thread sparked a bit of an argument.  I personally think that the Rachmaninov 2nd concerto is easier than the Rhapsody.  But I imagine it's different for everyone.  Also i think Prokofiev 1 is underrated in difficulty.  It's in the same category as Schumann, which I think is quite a bit easier.  But honestly, all of these concertos are difficult.  Even Beethoven 1,2 and Mozart ones.  A lot of people say that some are really easy but to me everything has its difficulties and challenges.  But anyways thanks for all the replies

[rachfanatic]

The idea alone of Rach2 being harder than the paganini Rhapsody is a joke. My piano teacher had a masterclass with Arthur Rubinstein and it so happens that she asked him the question of which is harder and he said without question that the paganini is harder despite having less notes than the Rach 2. Coming from Rubinstein, dosent that say something?

[Skeptopotamus]

I'll take Rachmaninov's word over Rubinstein's, seeing as how they are the Rachmaninov Concerti.

[musicsdarkangel]

OK, guys, we've come on a final answer.........



NEITHER


dammit. 


they are tough in their own ways. 

The Rhapsody is faster, the 2nd more awkward.

[steinwayguy]

OK, guys, we've come on a final answer.........



NEITHER


dammit.


they are tough in their own ways.

The Rhapsody is faster, the 2nd more awkward.

k

[viking]

OK, speaking of Rhapsody and 2nd concerto of Rachmaninoff, does anyone agree with me that Rach1 is much more difficult than both of them??  Thats what Dale Jackson said (one of my judges)  and I found it interesting.  It makes sense too.
SAM

[steinwayguy]

OK, speaking of Rhapsody and 2nd concerto of Rachmaninoff, does anyone agree with me that Rach1 is much more difficult than both of them?? Thats what Dale Jackson said (one of my judges) and I found it interesting. It makes sense too.
SAM

That's what I've heard...that cadenza is 

[perfect_pitch]

Just to add to your troubles.

Rachmaninoffs 3rd really belongs in the Ridiculously Virtuosic category. The only reason it sounds easier than the other concerto's in that category, is because the harmony of Rachmaninoffs sounds pleasurable to the ear. The 20th Century concerto's are very atonal and very chromatic and dissonant to the ear, making them harder to remember (when learning the piece) but the actual pieces themselves are just as hard.

[happyface94]

Well I practice the 1rst mouvement of the Rach 1 and I would totally refuse to play the Rach 2 or the paganini because I personally believe they're harder. My teacher probably believes that too, which is the reason she gave me the rach 1 over the Chopin F minor.

[dikai_yang]

can't really argue like this eh...
most of you who are in the performance level should have noticed that YOU are most comfortable in music composed by a certain composer, while the other person may have another one...

maybe our fingers work differently, it all depends on whether that particular piece "makes sense" to your fingers...

take me for example, although liszt is rated to be very difficult, his pieces make sense to me, i can learn them quickly.  also because i've played so much from him, i'm starting to see the pattern (yes there is one)...

however, many people may find mozart very simply, but for me... nooooo... i can never get them to sound right...

so it really depends on what kind of "style" suits you...

[Skeptopotamus]

Just to add to your troubles.

Rachmaninoffs 3rd really belongs in the Ridiculously Virtuosic category. The only reason it sounds easier than the other concerto's in that category, is because the harmony of Rachmaninoffs sounds pleasurable to the ear. The 20th Century concerto's are very atonal and very chromatic and dissonant to the ear, making them harder to remember (when learning the piece) but the actual pieces themselves are just as hard.

I don't even know what to say to this.  You want me to put the Rach3 in the same category as Busoni, Finnissy, Sorabji or Xenakis?  um yeah... or not.  Could someone get some sample pics of some Sorabji and Finnissy up here for this person?

[orlandopiano]

Skeptopotamus,

I am very familiar with most of the concerti on your "ridiculously virtuosic" list, and I would still put Rach 3 above them.  It's  more difficult to perform. Why?  Because with Rach 3 comes EXPECTATIONS from the listener.  EVERYONE knows the piece, and everyone KNOWS how they like it to be played. You pretty much have to play it perfectly to win any praise, a feat only accomplishable by a select few. 

But with the more obscure concerti that you rate above it (Alkan, Sorabji, Xenakis etc), there's not nearly the pressure of getting it right, technically and musically. There's only a handful of recordings that exist of these works, and very few people really know every nuance of the music like they do with Rach 3, so there's a little more room for error.

[Skeptopotamus]

ok.  so fur elise is harder than the OC.  of course!  how could i miss that?

[perfect_pitch]

I don't even know what to say to this.  You want me to put the Rach3 in the same category as Busoni, Finnissy, Sorabji or Xenakis?  um yeah... or not.  Could someone get some sample pics of some Sorabji and Finnissy up here for this person?

EXCUSE ME?? I'm doing a double Degree in Music at University. One of our Piano Teachers have played a couple of the 20th Century Piano conertos such as the Finnissy and the Sorabji Piano Concertos.... I'm not a flipping idiot - I have seen and heard the Concertos.

The emotional and perfectional aspects of playing the Rach 3 (Sorry for those who don't like it being called that - but it saves me typing the whole damn thing...    )

There is such a line where Piano Concertos are written for complete perfection and their sole aim is to truly test the Pianists abilities. Then there are those who overstep that line and just try and make their pieces sound so ridiculously hard with their incredibly hard and tight crushed chords and ecstatic eccentricities. The Busoni Concertos, Finnisy, and the other concertos in that category demand that the player has brilliant technical abilities yes... and to be able to play the notes right.

Rachmaninoffs 3rd Piano Concerto demands nothing less than perfection. The piece is scrutinised so much that there is so much pressure to play the piece with not just their fingers but with a sole mind and emotional ecstacy.

So don't treat me like some moron Skeptic-otamus....      I am not an idiot. I don't listen to anything but Classical Music (when I mean classical - I don't mean LITERALLY classical) I mean anything instrumental written in the last 300 years.)

OrlandoPiano is right.

[orlandopiano]

ok.  so fur elise is harder than the OC.  of course!  how could i miss that?

Nevermind...

 

[Skeptopotamus]

EXCUSE ME?? I'm doing a double Degree in Music at University. One of our Piano Teachers have played a couple of the 20th Century Piano conertos such as the Finnissy and the Sorabji Piano Concertos.... I'm not a flipping idiot - I have seen and heard the Concertos.

I'm sorry you felt like I was talking down to you hun, but this was obviously a misunderstanding of yours.  I don't see where I called you an idiot anywhere; it's not my fault if you make assumptions about what I mean and I don't personally like being attacked because of your own misunderstandings.

There is such a line where Piano Concertos are written for complete perfection and their sole aim is to truly test the Pianists abilities. Then there are those who overstep that line and just try and make their pieces sound so ridiculously hard with their incredibly hard and tight crushed chords and ecstatic eccentricities. The Busoni Concertos, Finnisy, and the other concertos in that category demand that the player has brilliant technical abilities yes... and to be able to play the notes right.

Busoni Concertos?  I didn't even know he wrote more than one.  So the Concerti I considered the most difficult are "rediculously hard" and have "incredibly hard" chords and require "brilliant technical abilities"?  Wow!  So far it sounds like, now follow me on this one, that they are EXTREMELY DIFFICULT!  And the fact that these comments are in comparison to the Rach 3 infer that these comments refer exclusively to the concerti mentioned besides the Rach 3, meaning that they are indeed more difficult.  Apparently you too think they are more difficult, but let's read on =) (also I don't appreciate, nor do I think quite a few other members will appreciate, the inferrence that Sorabji and Finnissy wrote their music to only be difficult.  And by "inferrence" I mean hearing it from you, seeing as how you weren't in any way just infering it; you were saying it outright.  Also, if something was written to only be difficult that would make it more difficult than the Rach 3 because you said yourself the Rach 3 isn't one of these concerti.)

Rachmaninoffs 3rd Piano Concerto demands nothing less than perfection. The piece is scrutinised so much that there is so much pressure to play the piece with not just their fingers but with a sole mind and emotional ecstacy.

So basically the only reason you think the Rach 3 deserves to be in the same category is because people expect a lot from it?  Ok then, you admit that the Sorabji and Finnissy Concerti are more difficult technically.  Seeing as how this was based on technical difficulty that WOULD, or should, suffice in shutting you up, but I feel like going on =)  My teacher once told me that people who use this mentality, as in the one that will be like, "This piece is difficult because it requires perfection.", are lazy pianists.  Teacher's words; not mine.  Every piece requires perfection.  The people that will say a Scarlatti Sonata is as difficult as a Liszt piece because it requires such perfection; that's what I'm talking about.  That's a load of crap but people say that kind of BS all the time.  Also, I don't think any of the other Concerti on that list require any less of a level of a "sole mind and emotional ecstasy.", with the possible exception of the Carter Concerto, which is basically like playing a Boulez Sonate with an Orchestra behind it.  Tell me a Boulez Sonate doesn't require perfection.  I dare you.  It may not be very emotional but it sure as hell requires a sound mind.

So don't treat me like some moron Skeptic-otamus....      I am not an idiot. I don't listen to anything but Classical Music (when I mean classical - I don't mean LITERALLY classical) I mean anything instrumental written in the last 300 years.)

"Skeptic-otamus"?  Well besides just being stupid and painfully immature that doesn't even make any sense so I don't really know what to say to that.  Again I didn't call you an idiot in my last post.  Also, nobody cares what kind of music you listen to; I also listen to only classical music, but 99% of that is modern so by your "logic" that makes me a better source on this anyways.  So either your logic sucks and you're stupid, or I do indeed know more about this and you are wrong.



In closing, you said yourself that the Finnissy and Sorabji are more difficult technically so thanks for wasting my time and proving my point yourself.  This list was based on technical difficulty and you said yourself that they are harder technically so I have no idea what you're rambling about.  Also, I would LOVE to know the name of your teacher that is playing Sorabji and Finnissy, and if you remember I'd like to know which concerti it was that he played.

[bernhard]

The emotional and perfectional aspects of playing the Rach 3 (Sorry for those who don't like it being called that - but it saves me typing the whole *** thing...    )

Er…

Doesn’t typing

(Sorry for those who don't like it being called that - but it saves me typing the whole *** thing...     )

defeats the original purpose of not having to type “maninoff”?

On the subject, Finissy has written a number of children's (or beginner's) pieces. Like his virtuoso( ) pieces I find them exceedingly dull.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[musicsdarkangel]

I'm sorry you felt like I was talking down to you hun, but this was obviously a misunderstanding of yours.  I don't see where I called you an idiot anywhere; it's not my fault if you make assumptions about what I mean and I don't personally like being attacked because of your own misunderstandings.



Busoni Concertos?  I didn't even know he wrote more than one.  So the Concerti I considered the most difficult are "rediculously hard" and have "incredibly hard" chords and require "brilliant technical abilities"?  Wow!  So far it sounds like, now follow me on this one, that they are EXTREMELY DIFFICULT!  And the fact that these comments are in comparison to the Rach 3 infer that these comments refer exclusively to the concerti mentioned besides the Rach 3, meaning that they are indeed more difficult.  Apparently you too think they are more difficult, but let's read on =) (also I don't appreciate, nor do I think quite a few other members will appreciate, the inferrence that Sorabji and Finnissy wrote their music to only be difficult.  And by "inferrence" I mean hearing it from you, seeing as how you weren't in any way just infering it; you were saying it outright.  Also, if something was written to only be difficult that would make it more difficult than the Rach 3 because you said yourself the Rach 3 isn't one of these concerti.)



So basically the only reason you think the Rach 3 deserves to be in the same category is because people expect a lot from it?  Ok then, you admit that the Sorabji and Finnissy Concerti are more difficult technically.  Seeing as how this was based on technical difficulty that WOULD, or should, suffice in shutting you up, but I feel like going on =)  My teacher once told me that people who use this mentality, as in the one that will be like, "This piece is difficult because it requires perfection.", are lazy pianists.  Teacher's words; not mine.  Every piece requires perfection.  The people that will say a Scarlatti Sonata is as difficult as a Liszt piece because it requires such perfection; that's what I'm talking about.  That's a load of crap but people say that kind of BS all the time.  Also, I don't think any of the other Concerti on that list require any less of a level of a "sole mind and emotional ecstasy.", with the possible exception of the Carter Concerto, which is basically like playing a Boulez Sonate with an Orchestra behind it.  Tell me a Boulez Sonate doesn't require perfection.  I dare you.  It may not be very emotional but it sure as hell requires a sound mind.



"Skeptic-otamus"?  Well besides just being stupid and painfully immature that doesn't even make any sense so I don't really know what to say to that.  Again I didn't call you an idiot in my last post.  Also, nobody cares what kind of music you listen to; I also listen to only classical music, but 99% of that is modern so by your "logic" that makes me a better source on this anyways.  So either your logic sucks and you're stupid, or I do indeed know more about this and you are wrong.



In closing, you said yourself that the Finnissy and Sorabji are more difficult technically so thanks for wasting my time and proving my point yourself.  This list was based on technical difficulty and you said yourself that they are harder technically so I have no idea what you're rambling about.  Also, I would LOVE to know the name of your teacher that is playing Sorabji and Finnissy, and if you remember I'd like to know which concerti it was that he played.

you're wrong.

[viking]

Just a comment Skepto.  You put Khachaturian Concerto in with Prok 2, Bartok 2, Liebermann 1.  It is DEFINATELY not in the same category.  It should be moved down.
SAM

[Skeptopotamus]

okies move it down then.  I'm not super familiar with that one; only seen the sheets once in a library but from the recording it sounded nasty but i you know more about it than me of course (this is not sarcasm; he's playing it) so move it down one.

[Skeptopotamus]

you're wrong.

Compelling and articulate =)


You're the one that said the Rach 2 is harder than the Rach 3, so I suppose this means the Rach 2 is also more difficult that Sorabji, Finnissy, Alkan, Busoni and Xenakis.  Alrighty I'm off this thread.  I'd just end up fighting more and that's not productive.

[bachmoninoff]

Hey guys, I know it’s more than 15 years since the last time this has been posted on, but I was wondering how you guys would rank these.

Liszt 1-2 & Totentanz
Moszkovski
Tchaikovsky
Rhapsody Paganini
Chopin e minor


Because I’m really wondering what I should learn for a competition

[aidouda]

Resurecting this topic... 3 years later 

For anyone interested in a supportive community around learning and playing concerti... I've launched an Instagram challenge where you have to study a concerto for 20 weeks and document your progress using the hashtag #20weekconcertochallenge

(My account is @aidaxlahlou)

Hope some people will join me

[thorn]

I like this idea! I was dabbling with Falla's Nights in the Gardens of Spain but lost motivation as there's no recording of the orchestra part to play with. I'm tempted to join and give it another shot though...