On Complex Music

[pita bread]

I'm addressing the topic of avant-garde/complex/modern music-

For anyone who thought Sorabji was unmusical, listen to Michael Habermann's NPR interview, specifically for his decomposition and analysis of Gulistan.

https://www.michaelhabermann.com (it's under sound files)

What may sound like a very hazy blur of notes is actually extremely music, there is a root chord, and floating over it is a melody (scriabinesque) supplemented by many countermelodies and effects a-la-Ravel. It's very lush and beautiful music.

But most people hear a blur of notes.

This is understandable though: The human ear isn't accustomed to hearing multiple voices, just sit in front of a large crowd at, let's say, a concert, and listen to the aural chaos. Occasionally you'll be able to pick out a voice or two based on the tone/color/volume of the speaker's voice. We run into a similar situation with Bach fugues, sometimes 4 voices are speaking at once, and our minds don't know which one(s) to pay attention to, hence the need to bring out a certain voice, or articulate certain repeated patterns so the ear can distinguish between the voices.

This doesn't just apply to polyphonic music though. Anything really aurally lush can seem confusing. I never really understood Scriabin's Sonata #9 "Black Mass" until I heard Georg Friedrich Haas's orchestration of it. I never found Horowitz's interpretation to be coherent, it seemed more a mess of chromaticism (Sofronitsky is better at bringing out the intereting melodies), but with the different "colors" availible with orchestra, the Black Mass instantly took shape and form. Maybe the same idea can apply to Sorabji's piano music, maybe it needs to be orchestrated so more people can understand it.

So give complex music another chance, try to take it apart and understand what's going on.

Specifically refering back to Gulistan, there's a middle section where the haze finally sweeps away, and one lone voice sings. If you lasted that long into the recording, you were well rewarded with utter gorgeousness.

[thierry13]

About everyone on this forum has allready listened to this interview, and this topic has been many many times discussed.

[ramseytheii]

Thanks for the ilnk. I for one on the forum have not heard it before.
Lots of music considered complex needs multiple listenings for it to make any aural sense.
I've listened to many Sorabji works many times, and in the end, I just find them ugly and unappealing.  But I would never say he was unmusical.

Walter Ramsey

[ravel]

hey, i really  loved the excerpts he plays from gulistan in that sound clip. specially the second excerpt , page 6 of gulistan.
it is so mysterious , amazing.

[Etude]

I find Gulistan in it's entirety to be quite rambling, it's page after page of busy counterpoint, there are some lovely melodies, I think it's a big shame that most aren't ever repeated.  It's just like a 30 minute improvisation.  It goes on and on with nothing really interesting to say.

[Skeptopotamus]

Is it just me or did this feel condescending and patronizing to those who don't like Sorabji?  I mean I do like Sorabji but i just got that feeling...

[pita bread]

I find Gulistan in it's entirety to be quite rambling, it's page after page of busy counterpoint, there are some lovely melodies, I think it's a big shame that most aren't ever repeated. It's just like a 30 minute improvisation. It goes on and on with nothing really interesting to say.

In a way, the piece is like long, meandering thoughts, it's really soothing.

Is it just me or did this feel condescending and patronizing to those who don't like Sorabji? I mean I do like Sorabji but i just got that feeling...

I didn't mean to sound condescending or patronizing at all, I'm sorry my post made you feel that way. I posted this because I kinda just wanted to write my thoughts "on complex music."