student who don't keep the beat

[Bob]

What do you do with these kids?

How do you encourage them to keep the beat without making them feel bad?

It's a coordination skill these kids just don't have yet.

Simple music, tap the beat then play and try to tap, tap while listening to music, tap while the teacher plays.... what else?

I wonder what they do at home if they can't keep the beat too.  How in the world are they practicing?

[Appenato]

Clap the rhythm with them and have them count aloud. sometimes counting aloud and simultaneously counting doesn't work, and if not, then have them go back after clapping and count it out. When beginning a piece, do this with them before learning the notes. So far, it's worked well clapping first together with them, then having them play the piece.

[pianonut]

yes!  and, to say the type of note they are playing.  then they learn several things at once.  whole-note-hold-it, half-note, quarter, two-eighths, four-six-teenth-notes...

when holding the remaining beats- (after first clap) you can put hands in a fold and go out by an inch each time the beat is spoken.  sort of like tibetian monk - if you also lean forward. 

[pianoannie]

yes!  and, to say the type of note they are playing.  then they learn several things at once.  whole-note-hold-it, half-note, quarter, two-eighths, four-six-teenth-notes...

I've read posts many times where teachers suggest the counting system you suggested.  But I've never understood this:  how do you say the word "quarter" in one beat?  Wouldn't it end up sounding like 2 eighths?

[pianonut]

you say it without dividing syllables.  just really fast:  'quarter.'

[jeremyjchilds]

We make make little "raps" for the students to croak through while playing tough sections of rythms. "this...is the part where ya gotta get up to get....down)

If it is a general lack or rythmic awareness, we count, and I warn them that they had better count all week at home, becuase I will be able to tell it they didn't and there will be "severe" consequenses (Kid's get a kick out of this) if they don't. noone has yet tested me to see how "severe" the consequenses are.

[jeremyjchilds]

Maybe my "severe consequense" will be a huge gold painted chain with a huge cheap medallion on it that they have to wear while the new student comes in...

"look at me" I'm rythmically delayed!!

[pianonut]

when you have a large class, better to be serious about the consequences as they soon figure that one out.  maybe a teacher chart for *brought instrument  *learned music for the week *listened and played well in class (recorded as behavior bucks are passed out- could make them different colors for different things - and different amounts)   three stars = grade for week.  grade is gradually lowered if two or one star is recorded by teacher each week.  poor grade for poor work.  some kids may not care.  that's where finding out what they like comes in.  yes, bribery! and, threatening to bring in the parents and talk together about the child's progress.

[bernhard]

Usually the problem is not so much that such students cannot keep the beat, as they cannot hear the beat, that is they only hear the rhythm. (In other words they confuse beat with rhythm)

It is easy to check this out. Ask them to sing “happy birthday to you” and clap at the same time, and listen to see if they are clapping the rhythm or the beat.

If that turns out to be the case, then the best solution is the one that Appenato said above: lots of clapping (the beat of course). In the beginning they will not be able to do it, so you must do it with them and they imitate you (put a Cd with a strong beat and clap to it. Clap to the beat, and clap to the rhythm: make them aware of the difference). Eventually they get it.

If their perception of pulse is irregular, than you may have no other option but to use a metronome at the beginning (later on, once they develop a regular sense of pulse you can discard it).

That is the main reason I do everyday lessons. Otherwise (with this sort of  student) you are fighting a loosing battle (the myth of Sisyphus comes to mind)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Bob]

Thanks for the advice.

Does anyone have any ways to keep that beat that are fun for the student?  The instruments might work well.  Or just changing the way the beat is kept all the time.  A duet part that has a note on each beat and very little movement might work too.

oooo.... tell his about Sisyphus Bernhard.  Tell us a story!    lol


(Bob shows true class and culture) "Is he the guy from the Redbull commercial?"

[bernhard]

I am sure you know about it.

Sisyphus was the guy who was ordered by the gods to roll a big stone all the way to the top of a hill. But the moment he was just getting there, the stone would roll back all the way down. So he would to restart rolling it up again. For eternity.

If you would like more details, let me know.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Bob]

Drat!  "You have beaten me once again Bernhard..."

lol... Here's my post anyway.  Love the mythology.



Good old Google.

Sisyphus the guy condemned to push a boulder up a hill forever.  The boulder gets to the top and then rolls back down again, so he has to start over.

Yes, that's a good analogy for this type of teaching.  At least you get paid for it, but it doesn't really improve you as a teacher.

[dmk]

Hi Bob,

some really good suggestions here so far.  Bernhard is totally right, the key is them being able to hear what they have done wrong...or better yet, aren't doing right

1/ you could try the Dalcroze method....

get them to walk the rhythm out....you can do it with or without the metronome.


2/ You could try the CROTCHET= walk QUAVERS= running

Good luck!!

dmk

[clariniano]

Have them get a metronome, and teach them how to use it in their pieces. Normally I have most students get a metronome between 3-6 months of study, but I've had students get one with 3-4 weeks of study, with excellent results. Some students may respond better to an auditory beat than a physical one.

Meri

[doctop]

If your student doesn't have natural rhythm, then they must learn the ridgid structure of using a metronome..
Rhythm is essential in playing any instrument....
Without it (RHYTHM) there is no music... just NOISE

[ted]

What about boogie ? That's what my teacher used to give pupils with this problem. Boogie demands a metronomic pulse and appeals to most people, especially the young. Unlike other rhythmic styles it can also be made very simple technically. If you cannot find appropriate scores just make one up and write it out for the pupil. My teacher did this for one seemingly intractable boy and he ended up winning a national talent quest with it.

[shasta]

Have the students MARCH or WALK to the music.  It is much easier to find the beat in this manner.  As others have said, clapping often leads to kids clapping the rhythm instead of the beat. 

The kids will inevitably find the beat by marching/walking, because is too difficult and unnatural to march/walk out a rhythm.  This is why marching bands and freestyle dressage are possible (I have done both).  Can you imagine getting a band or a horse to march on a rhythm???   

[keys]

Have the students MARCH or WALK to the music. It is much easier to find the beat in this manner. As others have said, clapping often leads to kids clapping the rhythm instead of the beat.

The kids will inevitably find the beat by marching/walking, because is too difficult and unnatural to march/walk out a rhythm. This is why marching bands and freestyle dressage are possible (I have done both). Can you imagine getting a band or a horse to march on a rhythm???

Yeah, I have had my kids do a variation on that as well. I also encourage dancing, sometimes while playing.

[rainbowrhythms]

Yeah, I have had my kids do a variation on that as well. I also encourage dancing, sometimes while playing.

  I ask the student to pick any key to play the right hand rhythm.  Ex. Playing the c with the second finger only we count the piece together. If that goes well do the left hand only and then do both hands together on the c's an octave apart.  This way they don't have to read the notes to the beat yet and they can concentrate on the rhythm.  Some students will need to say sh or rest or lift for quarter rests or rest 234 for a whole rest. Some kids don't get the connection from clapping or tapping but something clicks if they play a key to the rhythm.  The problem may be poor note reading instead of not feeling the beat.