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Topic: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?  (Read 12770 times)

Offline rachfanatic

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How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
on: July 14, 2005, 04:04:07 PM
It has always bugged me about how long it takes people to learn Concertos. It takes me quite a while to learn one, for example it took just over a year and a half to learn Rach 2 and about the same for the Paganini Rhapsody. What are peoples opinions on this?

Offline steinwayguy

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #1 on: July 14, 2005, 06:14:10 PM
It's kind of circumstantial....

Beethoven 2 = One week
Chopin 2 = One months
Bartok 2 =  :o

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #2 on: July 14, 2005, 08:22:31 PM
It depends on how much you enjoy the piece and how much you slack off.


I have slacked off on the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody (thanks to the summer), but because of my love for it, and the amount of times I have listened to it, I will have it done in a month or so (altogether 2 months)

Of course, this is also my first full concerto.


The more of that you do, the quicker it will become.

My stragedy is to memorize first.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #3 on: July 14, 2005, 09:10:51 PM
HOLY BATMAN!!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize people learned them this quickly. I would think it would take 6 months to a year to accomplish a concerto

Offline whynot

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #4 on: July 14, 2005, 09:44:29 PM
If I'm pretty concentrated on it, a few weeks to memorize (which I do first), then between a month and several to feel like I'd want anyone to hear it. 

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #5 on: July 14, 2005, 09:57:54 PM
which concerto? I am feel really pathetic. I was still feeling that the Haydn would take me 6 months earliest.

Offline Waldszenen

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #6 on: July 15, 2005, 12:06:27 AM
For a Mozart or Haydn concerto, including memorisation, it would take me about three to four months. For a Romantic/20th Century concerto..... let's not go there, eh?
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline steinwayguy

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #7 on: July 15, 2005, 01:34:46 AM
For a Mozart or Haydn concerto, including memorisation, it would take me about three to four months. For a Romantic/20th Century concerto..... let's not go there, eh?

Seriously? A 13-year old at my school (pretty damn talented) learned and memorized the Haydn D Major in like three weeks practicing an hour a day...

Offline Waldszenen

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #8 on: July 15, 2005, 03:01:55 AM
yeah, well I'm crap so don't forget that. ;)
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline jbmajor

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #9 on: July 15, 2005, 03:08:33 AM
Learning it is one thing, but mastering it in its correct form and style is another that takes even more time. 

Offline Barbosa-piano

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #10 on: July 15, 2005, 05:55:17 AM
yeah, well I'm crap so don't forget that. ;)

Welcome to the club. ;)
Feel free to follow my music blog! themusicalcause.blogspot.com[/url]

Offline dikai_yang

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #11 on: July 15, 2005, 07:52:13 AM
it takes a bit longer in my case, because when i say a concerto, i mean its entirety with all movements

beethoven no. 1:  3~4 weeks
rachmaninoff no. 2: 2 months
rachmaninoff no. 3: 6 months
mozart concertos in D minor and C major: about 1 week each...
tchaikovsky no. 1: 1 year (i did this when i was younger, so it felt significantly more difficult back then)
that's my complete concerto repertoir...
some of the others there are movements that i don't think i can learn (physically)
so it's a bit pointless to post them...

Offline dikai_yang

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #12 on: July 15, 2005, 07:53:51 AM
if you want to master your concerto, enter piano concerto competitions,
they really push you to polish the piece, you have no other choice...
that's how i got through them...

Offline gorbee natcase

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #13 on: July 15, 2005, 08:20:21 AM
I think that it is a ballanced formula, and your perspective of the piece(are you going to have the piece for breakfast/ or are you going to chew on it like an over cooked steak

1. How many hours you practice the piece a day
2. How consistent your practice is
3. How much you like the piece (very important factor)
4.How much stress you are under
5. what hours you practice (morning/day/ or night) etc... the list could go on
6. How much coffee you drink
7. how well you eat
8.what you eat (red meat can and does cause stiffness in the fingers)
etc......... the list could go on
but different people cope with different pieces in different ways
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)      What ever Bernhard said

Offline Skeptopotamus

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #14 on: July 15, 2005, 08:24:23 AM
Depends on the concerto, the person, and the effort/time put into it.

Offline march05

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #15 on: July 15, 2005, 08:49:04 AM
From what I know, the average time is about 3 - 5 months to learn 1 movt of a concerto up to casual-concert level. Of course these people have school/work/family that take up the majority of their time. If you have nothing else to do but practise all day then the time is much shorter. Profesionals can probably learn a not-too-difficult concerto in a month if they're pushed...

Offline Jacey1973

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #16 on: July 15, 2005, 12:23:10 PM
From what I know, the average time is about 3 - 5 months to learn 1 movt of a concerto up to casual-concert level. Of course these people have school/work/family that take up the majority of their time. If you have nothing else to do but practise all day then the time is much shorter. Profesionals can probably learn a not-too-difficult concerto in a month if they're pushed...

Yes i would agree, i wish i could do nothing but practise but gotta earn money/do housework, cooking etc for family too. Learning a concerto is a big committment i'm sure, i must get round to learning one one of these days!
"Mozart makes you believe in God - it cannot be by chance that such a phenomenon arrives into this world and then passes after 36 yrs, leaving behind such an unbounded no. of unparalled masterpieces"

Offline pianonut

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #17 on: July 15, 2005, 12:28:04 PM
dear gorbee,

did you say that red meat causes stiffness in the fingers?  are you serious?  i used to love steak, but now - if it threatens my piano playing - maybe i'll just eat more vegetables.  where did you read this?  (thinking this might be true)

i agree with the person who likes to eat bananas before performance.  they are known to have potassium.

how long for a concerto?  for me, a year.  must learn one.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline bernhard

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 01:21:30 PM
dear gorbee,

did you say that red meat causes stiffness in the fingers?  are you serious?  i used to love steak, but now - if it threatens my piano playing - maybe i'll just eat more vegetables.  where did you read this?  (thinking this might be true)

i agree with the person who likes to eat bananas before performance.  they are known to have potassium.

how long for a concerto?  for me, a year.  must learn one.


Here is an excerpt of an interview with Tamas Vasary, where he lays down the rule in regards to vegetarianism:

You are a great believer in nutrition and the importance of good physical condition for the pianist.

I am convinced that our general condition is greatly influenced by what we eat. And I am very excited today because I was reading an article on a new kind of vitamin therapy that sounds like it could be very useful for pianists. It was written by a doctor who has made tests on Olympic champions to find out which vitamins they lacked. You know, pianists are athletes , too. They need to be in excellent shape. I have to record the Brahms-Paganini Variations soon, and if there is the slightest pain in any finger, I won’t be able to do all I can. So I’d like to go to see this doctor.

When did you become aware of nutrition?

About six years ago. It was just around the time I was scheduled to do the first session of my complete Rachmaninoff concerto recordings. I got food poisoning and I became very ill. I literally stopped eating. I was two weeks before the recording and I was afraid that I wouldn’t survive the ordeal of six hours of non-stop playing that would be required of me because I was so weak. But when I went to the piano to practise a bit, I found that for the first time in ten years or more I was completely free of a kind of rusty feeling in my joints. At first I attributed this to an injection which the doctor had given me. But later I realised that this was because I had inadvertently stopped eating meat. All my life I have been a heavy meat eater; and ever since I stopped eating it, my hands have felt better. Also, I’ve experimented with vitamins, and I found that on days of high stress, especially when I am giving concerts, I take four times as many vitamin C tablets as usual.

(David Dubal – The World of the Concert Pianist – Victor Gollancz – p. 318, 322)

(Results from the most recent research prove conclusively that everything is bad for you ;D)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.



The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline presto agitato

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The masterpiece tell the performer what to do, and not the performer telling the piece what it should be like, or the cocomposer what he ought to have composed.

--Alfred Brendel--

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #20 on: July 15, 2005, 02:39:42 PM
Welcome to the club. ;)

I think we should get a membership list going on.

Offline RealPianist

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #21 on: July 15, 2005, 04:26:32 PM
how about mendelssohn 1st?

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #22 on: July 16, 2005, 04:07:13 PM
HOLY BATMAN!!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize people learned them this quickly. I would think it would take 6 months to a year to accomplish a concerto


Boliver, that's perfectly normal.  It wasn't too long ago (probably 3 years) that it took me 2 or more months to learn a movement of that Haydn D major.

You MUST memorize, memorize, memorize. 

Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #23 on: July 16, 2005, 04:08:11 PM
By the way,

that's so scary about the red meat!


And depressing   :'(


I guess I'll cut it out.

Oh dear.

Offline Dazzer

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #24 on: July 16, 2005, 05:13:11 PM
I think we should get a membership list going on.

i wanna join too!

Offline bernhard

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #25 on: July 16, 2005, 07:21:27 PM
By the way,

that's so scary about the red meat!


And depressing   :'(


I guess I'll cut it out.

Oh dear.

Don’t take it too seriously. Vasary (besides being a superb pianist) is considered somewhat of a food nutter (he also does yoga) ;).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline pianonut

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #26 on: July 16, 2005, 07:52:58 PM
thanks, bernhard, for at least letting us see both sides.  i'd never heard of meat affecting a person badly.  i've only been concerned with the taste and texture of meat.  for instance, you buy a piece of round steak or top sirloin, and the texture isn't normal...  i throw it out.  and, just yesterday, we bought some hamburgers that didn't taste right.  so, instead of eating the whole thing, threw it out.  this sounds wasteful, but i'd rather not eat, than eat a piece of meat that has dubious qualities.

who wants to watch a pianist who has mad cow disease play a concerto?
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline bernhard

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #27 on: July 16, 2005, 08:00:51 PM
thanks, bernhard, for at least letting us see both sides.  i'd never heard of meat affecting a person badly.  i've only been concerned with the taste and texture of meat.  for instance, you buy a piece of round steak or top sirloin, and the texture isn't normal...  i throw it out.  and, just yesterday, we bought some hamburgers that didn't taste right.  so, instead of eating the whole thing, threw it out.  this sounds wasteful, but i'd rather not eat, than eat a piece of meat that has dubious qualities.

who wants to watch a pianist who has mad cow disease play a concerto?

My favourite food is steak (rare). :D
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline gorbee natcase

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #28 on: July 16, 2005, 08:03:10 PM
thanks, bernhard, for at least letting us see both sides.  i'd never heard of meat affecting a person badly.  i've only been concerned with the taste and texture of meat.  for instance, you buy a piece of round steak or top sirloin, and the texture isn't normal...  i throw it out.  and, just yesterday, we bought some hamburgers that didn't taste right.  so, instead of eating the whole thing, threw it out.  this sounds wasteful, but i'd rather not eat, than eat a piece of meat that has dubious qualities.

who wants to watch a pianist who has mad cow disease play a concerto?
lol I eat it blue
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)      What ever Bernhard said

Offline pianonut

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #29 on: July 16, 2005, 08:31:00 PM
ewww.  you'd think, from a childhood where we were told to eat everything on our plate, that it would have sunk in.  but, am still picky, and if noone is looking, use the napkin.  cannot swallow bad food.

wonder if concerto pianists really eat that much right before performance. 
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline Jacey1973

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #30 on: July 16, 2005, 08:52:33 PM
My favourite food is steak (rare). :D

Yuck! I have to have steak (on the rare occasions that i do have it) well done. How can you eat it with all that blood? I guess for me blood reminds me that i am actually eating an animal that was once alive, which is why i rarely eat red meat anymore. In fact i don't really like meat at all, much prefer fish, much lighter.  :)

Euuuggghhhhh *shudders*  (just had an image of rare steak again lol)
"Mozart makes you believe in God - it cannot be by chance that such a phenomenon arrives into this world and then passes after 36 yrs, leaving behind such an unbounded no. of unparalled masterpieces"

Offline bernhard

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #31 on: July 16, 2005, 09:22:33 PM
Yuck! I have to have steak (on the rare occasions that i do have it) well done. How can you eat it with all that blood? I guess for me blood reminds me that i am actually eating an animal that was once alive, which is why i rarely eat red meat anymore. In fact i don't really like meat at all, much prefer fish, much lighter.  :)

Euuuggghhhhh *shudders*  (just had an image of rare steak again lol)

Er… ???

When you bite a juicy apple, or a lush mango, or a succulent watermelon, what do you think you are gorging yourself on?

Exactly! Sap! Or in other words vegetable blood :o

I eat my steaks rare, but vegetarians eat the poor creature raw! Lettuces are still alive when people cut them and shred them. >:(

Fruitarians are even worse, for what are fruit but foetuses? The poor fruits don’t even have a chance to become baby plants and grow. And of course so are grains.  :'(

What about all that fruit juice in supermarkets. Anyone who drinks that stuff is clearly a plant vampire, extracting their blood and drinking it raw.

And guess what, fish have blood too! ::)

The difference between eating a steak rare or well done has little to do with blood. The blood is still there. The reason is consistency and flavour. A well-done steak is the same as a shoe sole in terms of taste and texture. :P

Unfortunately there is no way round it. If you are going to fret over the morality of eating living creatures, your only choice is fasting. Everything else is equally immoral. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard (who eats meat because he cares too much for the vegetables :)).
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline invictus

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #32 on: July 17, 2005, 08:05:50 AM
ANybody for Grieg's A minor concerto?

14 year old, 2 months, 45 minutes a day, memorization with performance already

Offline Skeptopotamus

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #33 on: July 17, 2005, 08:26:10 AM
wow... even I find what you guys did to this thread disrespectful...

Offline Jacey1973

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #34 on: July 17, 2005, 09:59:12 PM
Er… ???

When you bite a juicy apple, or a lush mango, or a succulent watermelon, what do you think you are gorging yourself on?

Exactly! Sap! Or in other words vegetable blood :o

I eat my steaks rare, but vegetarians eat the poor creature raw! Lettuces are still alive when people cut them and shred them. >:(

Fruitarians are even worse, for what are fruit but foetuses? The poor fruits don’t even have a chance to become baby plants and grow. And of course so are grains.  :'(

What about all that fruit juice in supermarkets. Anyone who drinks that stuff is clearly a plant vampire, extracting their blood and drinking it raw.

And guess what, fish have blood too! ::)

The difference between eating a steak rare or well done has little to do with blood. The blood is still there. The reason is consistency and flavour. A well-done steak is the same as a shoe sole in terms of taste and texture. :P

Unfortunately there is no way round it. If you are going to fret over the morality of eating living creatures, your only choice is fasting. Everything else is equally immoral. ;)

Best wishes,
Bernhard (who eats meat because he cares too much for the vegetables :)).


Hehe, oh no, i love meat dont get me wrong. I think it would be very unhealthy not to have any meat in your diet at all. But i do find vegetable/fruit juices/sap etc (whatever u wanna call them) tastier than blood.......

The thing with blood is that i'm actually quite squemish and faint at the sight of it (i am so lame  ::) (it's actually annoying cos i would like to be a blood donar but i find it so traumatic even having a little blood test at the doctors, i always collapse etc, quite embaressing).

I think it is perfectly moral to eat meat  :) it's the food chain thingy innit?  ::)

Ah well...back to concertos....
"Mozart makes you believe in God - it cannot be by chance that such a phenomenon arrives into this world and then passes after 36 yrs, leaving behind such an unbounded no. of unparalled masterpieces"

Offline pianonut

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #35 on: July 17, 2005, 10:15:40 PM
i don't feel so bad about taking a year when i read that invictus took 14 years!  whew!  14 years and 2 months x 45 minutes every day.  now that's a slacker. 
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #36 on: July 18, 2005, 09:52:53 PM
i don't feel so bad about taking a year when i read that invictus took 14 years!  whew!  14 years and 2 months x 45 minutes every day.  now that's a slacker. 

 I think he meant he was 14 years old at the time.

Offline thierry13

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #37 on: July 19, 2005, 04:03:17 AM
I think he meant he was 14 years old at the time.

I think pianonut was joking.(in fact, i hope)

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #38 on: July 19, 2005, 01:43:10 PM
maybe so.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #39 on: July 19, 2005, 01:43:49 PM
how long would you say it would take a professional to learn a concerto up to performance standard?

Offline thierry13

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #40 on: July 19, 2005, 02:46:53 PM
It depends wich concerto. I heard some guy learned rach 3 in three days, and then performed it. He must have practiced alot during those days. Hamelin had Opus clavicembalisticum in his repertory at age 18, so I guess he can learn any concerto in less than a month.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #41 on: July 19, 2005, 03:34:22 PM
then the question must be asked how do they do it so fast?

boliver

Offline ravelmaniac

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #42 on: July 19, 2005, 07:11:23 PM
I need some help guys.  Do you think it's realistic for me to learn First Mvt. Tchaik. 1 concerto in two months? I've learned Ravel G Major first mvt in two weeks, Chopin F Minor first mvt in a month, and Beethoven C Minor first mvt in two weeks.  But Tchaik. 1 is definitely a step up.  What do you guys think?

Offline thierry13

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Re: How long does it take people to learn a Concerto?
Reply #43 on: July 19, 2005, 07:40:16 PM
The tchaikovsky pc 1 first mvt is easy. Two months is a more than enough time if you learned the Ravel in two weeks and Chopin in a month.
 

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