study finds music teachers at risk of hearing loss

[pianonut]

yes.  you heard it!  music teachers are the most likely to go deaf in ten or fifteen years.

[abell88]

Pardon me?

[pianonut]

I SAID!!!

[lostsoul]

I think it depends on what type of teaching you're doing. I don't think just playing the piano can make you go deaf (unless you're piano is really loud).

Can you imagine teach trumpet or the drums? Now that's loud!

If you do alot of ensemble work, even though it's acoustic, the decibel is really loud! through time your hearing will deteriate.

Also, being a teacher, you're probably subjected to more loud music than the norm. Best advice, "use ear plugs if you're going to be doing something loud".
I use it in band situations when you've got a loud drummer.

[jeremyjchilds]

the thought of going deaf makes me sick

[thalberg]

If music teachers are supposed to go deaf in ten to fifteen years, how come I've never heard a single one of my teachers complain about it?  I've had teachers who had taught well over 30 years in piano, and they never mentioned it.  I've heard lots of complaints about tendonitis, carpal tunnel, and many other things so I'm assuming there's not some big conspiracy to keep their deafness a secret from us young ones.

Some research and articles distort or misread their data.  Also, sometimes these things get published to evoke an emotional response in prospective readers so that their publications will be sold.  I guarantee you I will not be deaf by 40, like this research suggests. 

[pianonut]

this one was for bob.   out of respect for band teachers and what they have to go through.  factually, you are right, piano isn't as bad as band.  just keeping bob busy.  he tends to like journalistic titles.  next time, i will quote my article - i can't find it now.  was it readers digest?  oh well.

[bernhard]

If music teachers are supposed to go deaf in ten to fifteen years, how come I've never heard a single one of my teachers complain about it? 

There you are! Incontrovertible proof!

[pianonut]

thanks bernhard!  he's never heard -- NEVER HEARD.  he can't hear because he's lost his hearing. 

[Barbosa-piano]

Hey, imagine pipe organ teachers in this occasion...

[Bob]

Pianonut says about Bob "he tends to like journalistic titles."

I do?   


Bernhard says "There you are! Incontrovertible proof!"

Can't argue with that.  And Bernhard agrees too.



I've heard this, and yes it's probably more an ensemble issue.  However....
you don't think practicing a grand piano in a tiny piano room won't have any affect do you?

When does it affect you?  A little right away and some later on (when you're old).  The little hairs (celia I think) in your ears don't bend anymore -- you can't hear higher partials -- so you don't hear tone quality the same way.  Yes, you can still here, but the quality is lower.  And once it's happened there's nothing you can do about it.  And it will happen naturally anyway from what I've heard.  You're hearing will detoriate (along with the rest of your body).  Pleasant huh?  But your ears will go faster if they get pounded with loud sound a lot.

The solution?  Be careful about what sounds get into your ear.  Are you in a loud, noisey environment?  Are you putting your ears in a loud sound environment everytime you practice? 

Earplugs are one way to protect your ears.

Another solution is too stay out of those loud environments or limit your exposure.

Your reward?  Higher quality hearing late in life.  Right now, you probably won't notice a thing.  Talk about delayed rewards.

Not that you can't withstand "loud."  I don't think you have to turn the volume down on everything.  I do hear more things when I listen to music at a "strong" volume level, not blasting but up to performance volume.  I know that isn't going to hurt my ears because it's not loud enough and it's not for a long time.  It's the loudness (or intensity, whatever it is, but that idea) and the amount of time your exposed that causes problems.


I also remember hearing this...

"They" know the hairs don't regenerate, so once your hearing is gone, it's gone.

"They" don't know whether you can strengthen your ears by listening to loud sounds and resting -- the idea of building up the strength of those celia to withstand loud sound.

And that's introcontrovertible proof too!   I don't have any article or pure research.  That's just stuff I've heard, from articles and a few audiologist people.

[Etude]

Hey, imagine pipe organ teachers in this occasion...

Imagine this guy:

https://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/arb/music/mp3/sorabji.mp3

This is the sorabji organ symphony, most of it is ff - fff and it lasts two hours!   

[Etude]

More on topic - I'd imagine teacher suffer more, because they are exposed to the sound of the piano all through the day, with various students banging away at the thing.

[Bob]

"Study Find Music Teachers at Risk of Hearing Loss (At their own hands)"

I guess after awhile they just can't stand to hear Fur Elise played badly anymore.  It's sad really.

[pianonut]

i can't find the article again.  where in the world was it?

anyway...now am on page 35 of 'music, physician in times to come'  and reading about the ear.  "the human ear has two important functions:  hearing with teh cochlea (a snail-shaped canal in the inner ear - i knew snails had something to do with music!) and balance with the vestibule (a central cavity of the labyrinth that makes up the inner ear).  the ear is routinely given short shrift in gross anatomy classes where it's tiny but important muscles are rarely seen.  in anatomy textbooks, the 8th cranial nerve (the acoustic nerve) routinely gets the least print."

"according to the prevailing and orthodox ideas in the field, the only remaining questions about the function of the ear pertain to processes that transform vibrational or wave energy to electrical energy at special receptor cells (cells of corti) and ultimately to an understanding of how the brain perceives the sounds of the ear."

the function of the ossicles (bones in the ear) may be a protective one. "dr. alfred a. tomatis, an authority in auditory neurophysiology claims that hearing occurs primarily as a result of sound conduction through the bones of the head, and is not due to sound sonduction through the ossicles of the ear.  he feels that th eprimary site for sound transmission and hearing is the portion of the skull bone that runs from the tympanic sulcus (a groove in the skull bone at the point of attachment to the tyympanic membrane) along the petrous bone of the skull.  (the petros bone of the skull is the temporal bone that surrounds and protects the inner ear.  it is the densest bone in the body and the only inert bone that remains unchanged from the time of birth)."

"the petrous bone then vibrates, thereby directly sending the sound waves to the basilar membrane.  attached to the basilar membrane are the cells of corti (the sound receptor cells that transmit sound wave messages to the brain).  if the sound is too loud or carries too much vibrational energy for the delicate basilar membrane cells, the excess vibrational energy splays out to the fluid in the cochlea or inner ear which bulges out the oval window, in turn pushing on the ossicles of the middle ear (the pressure release valve).  this causes tenting of the tympanic membrane.  evidence for supporting this theory of audition comes from the well known fact of physics that sound travels with greater fidelity through a dense medium (such as bone) than through a less dense one (air, water, or cartilage)."

"opponents of the bone conduction theoryies feel that the soft tissues found in the skull would lower the fidelity of the sounds traveling by this route.  however, the bones adjacent to the ear drum receive vibrational energy directly from the eardrum.  (whales hear by conduction of sound through the skull bones) sound waves of intense force are required for our acute sense of hearing.  these have impact on the delicate and sensitive cells of corti, which are receptors of the sound wave energy. the cells of corti then translate the energy of sound waves into electrical energy that the nerves and brain can interpret."

ok.  i am reading this and thinking - what makes a music teacher have to strain to hear  (always turning their head to one side or the other).  is it habit to try to listen only out of one ear?  or is it they prefer monophonic listening?  what makes music teachers try to listen so intently when there is no exterior noises (by leaning forward, cupping hands around ear?)  now, i CAN understand band teachers doing this, but what if a regular piano teacher also does this?  (as most seem to at least lean forward).  am i right?  watch your teacher when you play next time.  (play really softly - for the experimet to work well)  then ask them - can you hear this without leaning forward?

 

[pianohopper]

the irony is almost unbearable.  it's like...a painter who goes blind...or...an overweight workout video guru...a Buddhist terrorist..."military intelligence"

[pianonut]

yes.  how can they have any secrecy anymore when they sell night vision equipment at Toys-r-Us.  just bought some for my little nephew.  (hope he doesn't spy on the neighbors - should have sent some advice about spying and privacy invasion!)

[whynot]

A conductor I know says they (conductors) lose their hearing in self-defense. 

[pianonut]

that's funny!  self-defense.  although, i must admit, the philadelphia orchestra is the best i've heard yet.  it seemed like they didn't need much help to stay in tune and be precicesly together.  is this what comes of the SAME people playing together for a long time or just very highly experienced musicians who bond quickly?  it's a curiousity of mine.  they are soooo good.  the conductor didn't seem to have a beat that was easily followed either.  is he just there for show?

[Bob]

Doing a little light reading pianonut?

I can't believe in 2005 they don't know for sure how the ear works!  I can understand the not knowing how the brain works, but the ear?  Something more physical?  That's odd.

I think it would be funny if a piano teacher leaned forward and cupped their hand to their ear.  That's a teacher sign that the student needs to listen to themselves.  I've never seen a piano teacher do it before.

The conductor is there to bring out the best in the best in the group.  The conductor IS the music.  They give the performers more confidence and comfort to bring out the expression in the music or just that edge to be comfortable playing out more.  Maybe the audience can hear a little better if they watch the conductor too.

[possom]

After a lesson last week with my 8 year old singing student I would tend to agree with that!!! She's singing Roxie from Chicago for a music theatre exam and the last note which she sings so well in chest voice is just astounding, I would love to get hold of a decibel metre when she's not looking to see what it reads at.

On topic of piano teaching, i've never found any of my pupils playing harsh on the ears, although I can't stand aeroplanes and other loud noises. I would think listening to walkmans would be a lot worse than teaching though, scary research