Liszt - Mephisto Waltz No. 1

[steinwayguy]

I am at your mercy.

[steinwayguy]

Etc., etc.

[Nightscape]

Seems to be quite good!  Just a few suggestions.

I really liked your sense of rubato and timing in this piece.

The slow section was very dreamy and engaging, as it should be.

The glissando near the beginning seemed a bit too hysterical and too fast  - it sort of popped out of nowhere and scared the crap out of me.

Also, right after the slow section (the part with the quick thirds), could you make it any lighter/softer and also make it seem a bit more mischevious?  I'm not sure if that makes sense, but whenever I hear that bit, it always makes me think of evil little elves scampering about.... of course that's probably not what you think of!

I'll now listen to the second half - the first was very enjoyable, and quite professional sounding.

[Nightscape]

I was surprised here.... that little cadenza like bit around 4:00 was perfect!  Sounded frantic and everything just like it should.  The parts before that, could be a bit "crisper" however...  it seems like your notes are less solid there so it could just be that.

The slow part right before the end was very good - it kept me in suspense, and had a trance-like quality.

The ending was also quite effective, just needs a little more "oomph" at the very very end, but as I understand that is extremely difficult so no pressure.  I was also impressed that this was a live performance and the audience really loved it.

Anyway it sounds awesome! 

[goansongo]

Man, awesome recording.   Excellent job.

[goansongo]

Really nice job.

[Dazzer]

too much rubato for my liking actually... liszt isn't some expression of musicality... just a showoff. So you just gotta show it off. The faster the better.

but that's my opinion obviously... and i can't play the piece. so kudos to you mate. - thumbs up -

[donjuan]

liszt isn't some expression of musicality... just a showoff.

I understand why you would think that, but if you want to get anything out of the music, we must always be searching for something more profound. Liszt was a showoff, but he knew how to showoff in such a way so it would appeal to anyone and so his music would last generations.

Very good playing, steinway guy!  it sounds very professional!  In response to Nightscapes's post about the glissando, I would leave it the way you play it in terms of speed, but maybe start from a little softer in the bass and get louder as you move up the keyboard, because there is only so much the ear can take in any given passage.  The high notes can always be played louder compared to the bass in this case.

Now, what sort of bugged me was in the second page with those staccatissimo octaves.  Now, the octaves fall on the 1st and 3rd eighth notes, right?  Well,always remember that the 3rd eighth notes at the end of each measure are LEADING to the first eighth note.  So therefore, maybe make the 3rd eighth note octaves louder than the 1st eighth note octave.  It should sound like, TE - duh ... TE - duh .. ...and so on until it comes to the C# minor chord, in which the approach would sound like, Te - duh ... TE - duh .. Te-te pow .. Te-Te Pow .. TE-TE POW .. TE-TE POW . pow . Pow . pow . Pow . POW . POW!!! 

Also, when you come to the slow part, in the single E and D#'s going back and forth, dont slow down so much.  I think you slowed down a little too much.. The music must continue - rule #1, right?  and Un poco meno mosso means "a little less movement" not a lot. 

It's a waltz, right? It's really no fun for people to dance to so much rubato.

Keep it up!  When I first heard your recording, I first thought it was a professional recording you ripped off a CD, But I can tell you havent copyed it.  haha, no skeptopotamus being pulled for you!  Im really impressed by your playing.  I look forward to hearing your part II.

donjuan

[donjuan]

I dont know if it's the recording quality or the piano or you, but the right hand seems way too soft in a number of parts.  For example, those repeated notes seem to disappear as well as the melody they carry.

The recording seemed a little too casual for my taste.  You know, words in the music like tutta forza, stringendo, -they all call for frantic measures!  The cadenza was brilliant!! but in other places, we need a little more noise - more "strepitoso", as is in the music. the ending was just like the rest of the piece, so it's effect was sort of lost in my opinion.

You have the notes.. I think you just need to practice performing and using adrenaline rushes to your advantage! I really look forward to hearing your playing in the future!!
donjuan

[steinwayguy]

Thanks for the comments everyone

In response...

The glissando near the beginning seemed a bit too hysterical and too fast - it sort of popped out of nowhere and scared the crap out of me.

Also, right after the slow section (the part with the quick thirds), could you make it any lighter/softer and also make it seem a bit more mischevious? I'm not sure if that makes sense, but whenever I hear that bit, it always makes me think of evil little elves scampering about.... of course that's probably not what you think of!

My idea about the glissando is that it's a really just smack in the face gesture of sheer conceited virtuosity  but I'll see how I like it without banging the hell out of that octave B.

Which part right after the slow section? The A major and B-flat Major Arpeggios? In the story I have been told about the piece, the bass is Mephisto and the woman he's seducing is the right hand. The women is shrieking and screaming as he makes some moves on her and the low F-F-E is him laughing.

liszt isn't some expression of musicality... just a showoff.

 

I don't agree with that at all, maybe when Horowitz plays it   

Thanks for the kudos though 

Now, what sort of bugged me was in the second page with those staccatissimo octaves. Now, the octaves fall on the 1st and 3rd eighth notes, right? Well,always remember that the 3rd eighth notes at the end of each measure are LEADING to the first eighth note. So therefore, maybe make the 3rd eighth note octaves louder than the 1st eighth note octave. It should sound like, TE - duh ... TE - duh .. ...and so on until it comes to the C# minor chord, in which the approach would sound like, Te - duh ... TE - duh .. Te-te pow .. Te-Te Pow .. TE-TE POW .. TE-TE POW . pow . Pow . pow . Pow . POW . POW!!!

Also, when you come to the slow part, in the single E and D#'s going back and forth, dont slow down so much. I think you slowed down a little too much.. The music must continue - rule #1, right? and Un poco meno mosso means "a little less movement" not a lot.

The part about the octaves... I've always felt stongly that the first leads to the second, such as B-E should be b E, b E, c F, c F

And I can see where you're coming from about the E's and D-sharps. I think is a really important part in the story, because Mephistopholes and the girl he's going to seduce first see each other. And the E's and D#'s represent them exchanging glances.

[pita bread]

In regards to the whole piece:

Great job, especially in a live performance! Your beginning was very solid and steady. Your "la melodia ben marcato e pesante" part after the start of section 3 really dramatic. The "ritenuto il tempo - una corda sempre - dolce espressivo" part before the ending was genius, and as someone else said, very trancelike. In the "p - rinforz." repeated bass chord with the RH in 6s part after the 2/4 change before the ending, the effect you got was perfect - terrifying.

However, I think you can work a bit on your accuracy in section 1 and 3, section 2 for the most part was clean. You could lighten the pedal a bit, the pedal in section 3 made your playing seem muddy, and overall, lost the frantic-ness. You certainly took your time with this piece with all the rubato, and I respect that, but personally I prefer more straight tempo in section 1, less tempo drop going into section 2 with less rubato, and a terrifyingly fast section 3. And more speed and power in the final page! But that's just personal preference.

[steinwayguy]

Yeah I noticed my recording is like two minutes slower than most...Where exactly does this come from (like seriously what specific spots)? I dont' see TOO much wrong with it, but I don't want to be another Arrau or Ashkenazy...

[pita bread]

You beat Ashkenazy in slowness fo sho, and I'm pretty sure you're contending with Arrau right now 

The main parts that are slow:

Section 1, after the double-glissando when the theme comes back in left hand octaves - my first thought when I heard the theme come back in was "why is this so slow compared to the previous pages?"

Section 2, initial part until the first "laughter" part - this is just over-rubatoed in my opinion, and loses its continuality.

Section 3, Presto - If you're gonna take it at your speed, give it more power and ferocity, otherwise, play it "presto."

Section 3, ending - I prefer a more "a tempo" feel at the beginning of the final stretch.

I think if you adhere to a more straight tempo in section 1, and speed up parts of section 2 and 3 (mainly 3), you can shave off 2 minutes easily.

[steinwayguy]

K, thanks Pita Bread, I will look into it.

[pita bread]

No problem, maybe it's time for me to start re-learning this piece again 

[Aziel]

My Critique:  It was Julliard Worthy...

I haven't played this peice yet but I must say your playing was very enjoyable.  It's going right onto my iPod. 

Only thing I can add to what everybody else said, would be to make this peice more 'devilish'.  This peice didn't come off to me as to wicked or evil.  I mean it is the 'mephisto' waltz.  Then theres the whole evil history of Liszt / Paganni etc. etc.  Make it seem like the devil is in you when you play the peice.  Send chills through my spine (the whole deal).  I'm sure you can do it...

Don't know if that'll help but, There isn't too much for me to say, considering you've gotten so many reply's already.   


Aziel Kain Liked This Recording!!

[ajw400]

too much rubato for my liking actually... liszt isn't some expression of musicality... just a showoff. So you just gotta show it off. The faster the better.

I absolutely disagree, 100%.

[janne p.]

Good performance, though mp3's never do justice to live recordings.

About the rubato, which has been discussed above: in my opinion you do a good rubato, but too often. This piece consists to a high degree of repeating patterns, and if you make the same rubato every time the energy, the flow of the music is hindered and stopped. (For example the (ossia) ascending 16th-phrases in the first D flat Un poco meno mosso, or the phrases in the next D flat U.p.m.m. with broken octave 16th's.) Consider varying the rubato, or losing it some times; both to keep up the flow. The little recitativo before the last page was also a bit long/slow/not-forward-going in my taste; as the last page makes up for only about 15 seconds, the form of the piece calls for a shorter introduction to the end, so to speak.

[ralessi]

too much rubato for my liking actually... liszt isn't some expression of musicality... just a showoff. So you just gotta show it off. The faster the better.

but that's my opinion obviously... and i can't play the piece. so kudos to you mate. - thumbs up -

and THIS is the reason that Liszt has such a bad reputation..because people think like this.....Awesome performance! few things that I might suggest differently, but overall..that was a great performance...

[arensky]

                                                       Bravo!

[pianowelsh]

I really liked it. Dont listen to the people who say Liszt is show off only and faster the better - this actually disagrees with Liszt himself!!! i thought your rit circa 5:20 in got a bit slow but generally i dont find your tempi an issue atall. i think you sometimes sound a bit too grounded?! and you can fly a bit more in the passagio. In the more tender moments i could do with an even more legatissississimo sound really like galaxy chocolate or something. Loved your 'puckish' touch in upper registers though! All in all well on the way - will you play it in competition soon?

[crazy for ivan moravec]

loved it!

i don't know if it's the recording quality, or, i feel something is lacking. yes it's exciting.. but I NEED MORE FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (im not mad, just my way of saying it.

get it on, man! give it all. don't lose the intensity in some of your tones (vistuosic parts). don't give in to the slightest tendency to slow down (not that u were). bring out your youthful exhuberance!!! (i understand ur in high school?)

believe me, i loved it so much. i appreciate a performance like this because it inspires me to work even harder. but you gotta put us all in flame! like ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOOO!

i got so excited with the fact that you played it that well, that i still do believe you can do even more. i have heard of a pianist who played it here, she was trained in Graz, awesome!!! the piano was on fire! Growl!

ok, im over acting here now. but congratulation! hope to hear you again, when you're famous already!

all the best
>crazy for ivan moravec<

[superstition2]

The beginning seems a little hesitant. The slow section of part 1 is somewhat muddled/perfunctory/flat. The piece (part 1) as a whole seems to stretch/warp a bit too much as well.

It's clear you have a lot of talent, but more practice will clean up the performance. Also, give the slow section more interesting/poetic dynamics.

--

Part II is excellent until about 1/2 way through or so. The section where you're playing single notes with the right hand is a bit awkward and about 2/3 of the way through, the playing becomes too mechanical. I think the ending was underwhelming. There was too much silence overall, and I had the impression that you got tired.

You nail most of the really difficult parts, but the sections in between often seem a little awkward, as if the piece is a stringing together of the tough parts you practiced.

I look forward to buying one of your CDs in the future.