"honest" interpretations of Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2

[donjuan]

Ok, so I played hungarian rhapsody no. 2 for my teacher yesterday, and afterwards, he tried to help me play the piece more properly with a more refined touch and a sense of rubato that makes sense to the pulse and the phrasing. 

He told me that I add inappropriate mannerisms - visually and physically.  Therefore, by the end it seemed to him as if I am trying to make a farce out of the piece and try to "re-enact" certain traditions that have been developed in other recordings as a result of the piece being too popular.  He (any myself) wants me to not just "play the notes," but search for a more profound meaning deep rooted in the sheetmusic.  I am sure you know what I mean when I say "traditions" - innacuracies in the piece like pedaling that isnt marked in the music, yet seems to be heard in a number of recordings.
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As an example, you know that opening theme that goes

B#  C#  D#   E   A   E   D#  C#  ?  According to the sheet music and all logic surrounding the phrasing of the passage, the notes should flow somewhat evenly.
Well, it seems that I subconsciously add a little break between the first E and the A so it sounds like 

B#  C#  D#   E ___  A  E   D#  C#.  I dont mean to do such things, but the fact of the matter (I know, it sounds like Im just making up excuses to mask my lousy musicianship) is that I hear recordings (orchestral and piano) that seem to do the same thing.  Am I going crazy?  Am I the only one who hears these things, and therefore am I perceiving this music entirely wrong? 
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I was a little upset with myself with the fact that my playing came off that way, since it was really not my intention to do such a thing. But in the end, it does not really matter what I tried to do.  The important thing is what the audience hears and if it rubs them the wrong way.  Because my playing came off as superficial and pretentious, my teacher thinks I add these things in on purpose.  Well, I was a little dumbfounded to get a punch in the face from reality because I learned and played this piece the way I always do - from recordings.  I think, possibly, I listened to the wrong kind of recordings that more or less make a farce out of this piece, and therefore I receive the wrong influence. 

I am trying to take a look at this piece with fresh eyes and try to purge my mind of what I had heard before.  Therefore, I am looking for recordings that most honestly portray Liszt's original ideas.  Ha - looking at a piece with fresh eyes by listening to recordings, if that doesnt sound hypocritical, I just dont know what is..  However, I think I dont have the musicianly integrity or knowledge of the instrument to really understand the music from sheetmusic alone.  I am sure if I dont listen to any recording at all, I will develop my own stupid ideas and make an even more insulting farce of Liszt at my next lesson.

If you didnt bother to read my whole spiel up there (and I dont blame you; it's just a lot of childish ranting), Please read this: I need to know who plays Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 with the most honesty to the sheet music and portrays ideas that Liszt would have approved of, so I can track down their recordings and dig myself out of this little crappile I have blindly fallen in to.

Many thanks,
donjuan

[steinwayguy]

I can not recommend Misha Dichter's 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody highly enough. It is indescribably amazing. PM me if you want it.

[pies]

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[xvimbi]

A general remark: I think you should make up your own mind about how to play a piece. If you hear a recording and you like to play the same way, fine, but that is your decison, so you must take the blame if necessary (and you are doing that). On the other hand, you are certainly capable of trying different versions yourself and figure out which one you want to make your own. You don't need a recording that doesn't have the gap.

Playing things that are not in the score is entirely your fault. I don't mean that in a harsh way. Let's phrase it differently: interpreting a piece is your responsibility. I think the biggest drawback of listening to recordings is that one may end up relying on them, including all the nonsense that they may contain (I just bought a CD with Glenn Gould playing some Mozart sonatas - biggest mistake in my life). Of course, I don't mean you should stop listening to recordings, but you must carefully check that interpretation against the score if you plan on adopting it. Studying the score is an abolute must, and it often takes a lot longer than to learn how to play the piece. If you do this, you'll find that recordings by the best performers are chock-full of "mistakes", and these are intentional, not just a simple slip of the finger. It is kind of fun to try to find these mistakes, or let's say differences between different recordings. It's good eartraining. You'll start ending up paying attention to these things in your own playing.

[maxy]

ooooooook

the most "serious" interpretation of HR2 is probably by Rachmaninov.

HRs should not be approached with too much stiffness...   You could add notes if you wanted.  This is not a Beethoven sonata.

For recs you may also want to try Cortot, he does weird stuff but he was a great master. I assume you already have the Cziffra.

[steinwayguy]

ooooooook

the most "serious" interpretation of HR2 is probably by Rachmaninov.

HRs should not be approached with too much stiffness...  You could add notes if you wanted. This is not a Beethoven sonata.

For recs you may also want to try Cortot, he does weird stuff but he was a great master. I assume you already have the Cziffra.

Blech I HATE the cortot recording.

[happyface94]

Listening to a recording can be for pleasure, but when you practice a piece, you should NEVER listen to one as it can screw with your interpretation. My teacher says I listen too much to Glenn Gould...

[donjuan]

Ok, thanks for your responses, and thank you steinwayguy for the recording!

Max, I am not interested in adding notes to the score -Ive already made enough of a mess of it..  My teacher was just chewing me out for adding ideas that are not there in the sheet music.  This problem with my playing is like a disease and I must cure it FAST, like, before the next lesson!  On the other hand Max, I would sure love to hear that Cortot recording!  Does he play his cadenza too?

Thank you very much for your input, xvimbi, but right now I feel like I should not try to play it my own way because it's all wrong.  Maybe I can talk about deviating within the correct way, once I get the phrasing and rhythm right in such a way Liszt would approve.

Maybe I should try to record my playing so you can see specific problems..  Is this a good idea?

Thanks,
donjuan

[xvimbi]

Maybe I should try to record my playing so you can see specific problems..  Is this a good idea?

How about you record yourself and then try to find specific problems yourself? Listen to your playing with the score in your hands and see if you can objectively judge your own playing.

[Barbosa-piano]

Rachmaninoff's performance of this piece is incredible, although when he gets to the "Friska" Section he plays at a speed that is much slower than I would have thought. But still, it is incredible, and his cadenza is very nice (Probably one of the longest cadenzas added to this piece...). Padarewski's performance of it is fair, but he loses some of the virtuosism, and his cadenza is a very short one... I used to think that the E note had that little break, because most performers and conductors give us that "illusion"...

Stupid question: Does anybody know who performed this piece for MGM for one the the Tom and Jerry episodes?!... It sounds pretty good.

Mario Barbosa

[Skeptopotamus]

rachmaninov always used his own cadenza though right?  anyways go for Jeno Jando.

[JPRitchie]

I have little formal training in music, and do not do piano performances - I do MIDI. So, my question on matters such as this is: Why not pick the most original score you can find and then design your performance using MIDI? I created a MIDI of HR#2 (the ending is here.) from the 1904 Ditson sheets and in doing so discovered many, many departures from the score in recordings.

Why not use a MIDI as the starting (but not ending) point for your interpretation ? MIDI will play the piece in a way that corresponds very closely with the sheet music. Thus avoiding the mannerisms of previous performances. MIDI, when properly programmed, will render the rhythms in the score. Unless special efforts are made, however, it has no rubato, and keeps strict time. But, even within these confines some designing is possible, for example, in planning the gradual acceleration in tempo that occurs in the Friska movement.

Regards,
Jim

[jehangircama]

One of the best Liszt interpreters is supposed to be Gregory Ginsburg
And I msut congratulate you for being able to play that piece. I have been trying unsuccesfully to learn it ever since I heard it on that Tom and Jerry cartoon

[mcwilson]

...Stupid question: Does anybody know who performed this piece for MGM for one the the Tom and Jerry episodes?!... It sounds pretty good.

Mario Barbosa

A bit late but this is a fascinating read: https://www.gimpelmusicarchives.com/catconcerto.htm