Focusing while practicing

[ravelmaniac]

I often find that the biggest obstacle for me to practice up to six hours a day is my mind wandering.  I know this sounds silly, but it really is a big problem sometimes.  However, lately, I've found a way to only focus on the music, and not even think in words while practicing.  So even if I sense there some problem, rather I think through it musically. Thus, I avoid all thoughts of anything else, essentially completing focusing. And, it's working.  Anybody been through this?

[bernhard]

You may find the discussions in this thread interesting:


https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2082.msg17230.html#msg17230
(how to concentrate).


https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5179.msg49593.html#msg49593
(concentration, attention and consciousness)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[lostinidlewonder]

I reckon if you ever do long hours at the piano you have to make sure you organise your work carefully. Know exactly how many bars you want to get through, which pieces you want to work on and strategy to memorize.

We don't really have to think in words anyway, we consider the sheet music, observe how it effects the hand, observe the pattern within the music that aids the memory, observe the quality of sound that we are producing. We should however put in words on the sheet music our observations which crack difficulties we find in the piece. Perhaps it is a pattern which aids our memory, or particular control we must pay attention to, whatever it is those things definatly should be written down in words for future refference.

[steinwayguy]

I reckon if you ever do long hours at the piano you have to make sure you organise your work carefully. Know exactly how many bars you want to get through, which pieces you want to work on and strategy to memorize.

We don't really have to think in words anyway, we consider the sheet music, observe how it effects the hand, observe the pattern within the music that aids the memory, observe the quality of sound that we are producing. We should however put in words on the sheet music our observations which crack difficulties we find in the piece. Perhaps it is a pattern which aids our memory, or particular control we must pay attention to, whatever it is those things definatly should be written down in words for future refference.

Good post.

I am kind of neurotic about my practicing. As you may know, I practice 7 to 9 hours a day. I write down what times I'm practicing for the next week and how long I am practicing each piece or movement. Then, I construct "daily drill" lists for myself. These consist of the measures or sections of a piece that I feel I need to touch every day in order to get them under technical control. I then divide my time up into those sections, say, five minutes for bars 11-18 and seven minutes for 95-108. I have found this extremely effective. By limiting your practice time of a certain passage, it helps you be more efficient by both not spending too much time and concentrating about 5 times better. I usually make different lists for the same piece. For example, for the Mephisto Waltz, I made an hour long list, a 90 minute list and a two hour list, and used them depending on how long I was planning to work on the piece. I strongly recommend you use this method, especially for technically difficult pieces, if you are having a hard time being effective or focused in your practice.

[BoliverAllmon]

sounds a bit anal, but probably very effective.

[steinwayguy]

sounds a bit anal, but probably very effective.

 

Very anal, thanks.

[bassoonypiano]

I bet that is a very effective way of practicing Steinwayguy, isn't it? Well of course it is, or else you wouldn't be practicing that way!

[viking]

I could only imagine what 7-9 hours per day would do to my technique.  It would be awesome!!  Too bad my concentration is absolutely pathetic.  I've always thought this was just me.  Maybe ill try that list thing. 
SAM

[andyd]

After a few hours, don't you chaps simply want to do something else?
I never could practise more than three hours, even when someone had offered me a job playing the cafes etc. and I seriously considered piano as alternative/supplementary employment.

What drives you to 9 hours practice a day? The ambition to be a concert pianist?
And have you ever had RSI from the strain on your body?


Andy

[fliszt]

7 hours a day??? haven't you got a job?? no school?? It also beeing scientifically explained ( sorry, i;m dutch so my englisch isn't that well ) that a person can't concentrate more than 2 hours non stop.

I also think that that should be enough. Or you're a concert pianist and need to stay in shape. But studying for more than 2 hours on 1 piece isnt very usefull if you ask me

[bernhard]

I don’t think he spends seven hours on a single piece. If you read his practice regimen (reply # 3) you will see that he breaks down this total amount of time into several smaller sections and work on different stuff on each. But he also does a long term planning so that the small sections add up to something in time.

I find hard to criticise anything in this approach. This is certainly the way to do it.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[quasimodo]

I have another question related to the thread : How to focus while PLAYING (performing) ?

Waht happens to me is that when I want to record my pieces (for the Audition room naturally), it takes forever before I manage to get a clean take, mistake free.
Though I don't exclude that my level mastery of the pieces might be insufficient (because I didn't focus properly while practicing  ), I feel that mostly, the concentration on my playing is to blame.

I dare not imagine what it would be if I were to play in front of a real audience.

[BoliverAllmon]

I don't buy into the idea that you can only concentrate for two hours. Tennnis matches can rup up to four hours if it is a close match. I don't see the tennis players hitting the balls with no thought behind it.

Golfers at times have to play 36 competitive holes in one day. That can take 6 hours or so.

I think it all comes down to how we train ourselves. I think (granted this is just me) that we can train our brains to concentrate longer in the same way that you would lifting weights. You concentrate for as long as you can and each day you strive to go a little more. Eventually you are up to 8 hours.

my two cents.

[steinwayguy]

I get up, have a drink of water and walk around for a couple minutes every 25 or 30 minutes. I only practice in 2 or 3 hour stints, also. I practice a piece for 2 hours, take a 30 minute break and practice another piece 2 or 3 hours and take another 30 or 60 minute break etc.

7 hours a day??? haven't you got a job?? no school?? It also beeing scientifically explained ( sorry, i;m dutch so my englisch isn't that well ) that a person can't concentrate more than 2 hours non stop.

I also think that that should be enough. Or you're a concert pianist and need to stay in shape. But studying for more than 2 hours on 1 piece isnt very usefull if you ask me

I will be a senior in high school starting this August. I go to an arts school, so I only had four academic classes this past year. My schedule was different every day, but to give you an idea, I'll show you my average Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.

Monday:
Class 8:00-10:10
Practice 10:15 - 11:45 (1.5)
Lunch 11:45 - 12:15
Practice 12:15 - 1:15 (1)
Class 1:30 - 3:35
Practice 3:45 - 5:45 (2)
Dinner 5:45 - 6:15
Practice 6:15 - 8:15 (2)
Practice 8:45 - 10:45 (2)

Tuesday:
Class 8:00 - 11:15
Lunch 11:15 - 11:45
Practice 11:45 - 1:30 (1.75)
Class 1:30 - 3:35
Practice 3:45 - 5:45 (2)
Dinner 5:45 - 6:15
Practice 6:15 - 9:15 (3)
Practice 9:45 - 11:45 (2)

Wednesday (no academic classes)
Practice 8:30 - 10:00 (1.5)
Class 10:00 - 11:30
Lunch 11:30 - 12:00
Practice 12:00 - 2:00 (2)
Class 2:00 - 3:00
Practice 3:00 - 5:30 (2.5)
Dinner 5:30 - 6:00
Practice 6:00 - 9:00

[BoliverAllmon]

man I need to get organized.

[bernhard]

I have another question related to the thread : How to focus while PLAYING (performing) ?

Waht happens to me is that when I want to record my pieces (for the Audition room naturally), it takes forever before I manage to get a clean take, mistake free.
Though I don't exclude that my level mastery of the pieces might be insufficient (because I didn't focus properly while practicing  ), I feel that mostly, the concentration on my playing is to blame.

I dare not imagine what it would be if I were to play in front of a real audience.

Have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2256.msg19267.html#msg19267
(nervousness – the solution – mention of 7 items in consciousness)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=1627;sa=showPosts;start=1100
(How to practise performance)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4208.msg39083.html#msg39083
(stage fright – learning from successes as well as from failures)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Nana_Ama]

I get up, have a drink of water and walk around for a couple minutes every 25 or 30 minutes. I only practice in 2 or 3 hour stints, also. I practice a piece for 2 hours, take a 30 minute break and practice another piece 2 or 3 hours and take another 30 or 60 minute break etc.

I will be a senior in high school starting this August. I go to an arts school, so I only had four academic classes this past year. My schedule was different every day, but to give you an idea, I'll show you my average Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.

Monday:
Class 8:00-10:10
Practice 10:15 - 11:45 (1.5)
Lunch 11:45 - 12:15
Practice 12:15 - 1:15 (1)
Class 1:30 - 3:35
Practice 3:45 - 5:45 (2)
Dinner 5:45 - 6:15
Practice 6:15 - 8:15 (2)
Practice 8:45 - 10:45 (2)

Tuesday:
Class 8:00 - 11:15
Lunch 11:15 - 11:45
Practice 11:45 - 1:30 (1.75)
Class 1:30 - 3:35
Practice 3:45 - 5:45 (2)
Dinner 5:45 - 6:15
Practice 6:15 - 9:15 (3)
Practice 9:45 - 11:45 (2)

Wednesday (no academic classes)
Practice 8:30 - 10:00 (1.5)
Class 10:00 - 11:30
Lunch 11:30 - 12:00
Practice 12:00 - 2:00 (2)
Class 2:00 - 3:00
Practice 3:00 - 5:30 (2.5)
Dinner 5:30 - 6:00
Practice 6:00 - 9:00

when do you have time to do your homework?!

[lagin]

This is in no way helpful to the conversation, but speaking of focusing, have you ever been in the middle of memorizing a fugue, like hacking through it without looking at the score, almost made it, and the PHONE RINGS!?  And then everyone is like so?  What's the big deal?  Ahh!

[fredo]

I don't buy into the idea that you can only concentrate for two hours. Tennnis matches can rup up to four hours if it is a close match. I don't see the tennis players hitting the balls with no thought behind it.

They have to be concentrated for like 10sec of playing and then there is always a break in which they dont have to be, at least they dont have to be as concentrated as while playing. That makes it a lot easier to stay concentrated for 3 hours or how long a Tennis match lasts.

What i noticed is i often solved mathematical problems while playing piano (studying maths) or thought through other things that are on my mind while playing piano. I guess thats not the best way to progress at piano, but its interesting that this is possible.

[bernhard]

when do you have time to do your homework?!

Homework is for wimps.

[Jacey1973]

Good post.

I am kind of neurotic about my practicing. As you may know, I practice 7 to 9 hours a day. I write down what times I'm practicing for the next week and how long I am practicing each piece or movement. Then, I construct "daily drill" lists for myself. These consist of the measures or sections of a piece that I feel I need to touch every day in order to get them under technical control. I then divide my time up into those sections, say, five minutes for bars 11-18 and seven minutes for 95-108. I have found this extremely effective. By limiting your practice time of a certain passage, it helps you be more efficient by both not spending too much time and concentrating about 5 times better. I usually make different lists for the same piece. For example, for the Mephisto Waltz, I made an hour long list, a 90 minute list and a two hour list, and used them depending on how long I was planning to work on the piece. I strongly recommend you use this method, especially for technically difficult pieces, if you are having a hard time being effective or focused in your practice.

I'm not as strict as you, but i think i might give it a go. The idea of limiting your practice time of a certain passage is a really good idea. Because i often find that i aim to do say a page and a half thoroughly in 2 hours, but i always run out of time and make myself move onto something else so at least i'm getting through a little bit of everything.

I find the concetration thing a huge problem too. I will be good for say 2 hours and then i have a little break, that usually helps.

4 hours practice to me is a bad day - just because i have so much to get through at the moment. On a good day i practise 8 hours. I have quite a few breaks though and always an hour for dinner and to read a little just to take my mind completely off piano!

I also find going to bed early and getting up early is so important, because if i'm up late i know my practise is going to be cut short because i start too late.

Living back at home again is a real problem, just because i have my mum or brother or something barging in at least every half hour and asking me something or fiddling with the TV. That drives me mad i've tried to explain how this completely breaks my concetration and i think they are beginning to understand. I really miss the peace i used to get in my Uni practice rooms!

Thanks for the links Bernhard will give them a look.

[ramseytheii]

I'm not as strict as you, but i think i might give it a go. The idea of limiting your practice time of a certain passage is a really good idea. Because i often find that i aim to do say a page and a half thoroughly in 2 hours, but i always run out of time and make myself move onto something else so at least i'm getting through a little bit of everything.

I used to try and swallow pieces whole in my practice sessions (many years ago in the Dark Ages).  But then I realized, through the help of a good teacher, that it was much more economical in the long-term, to work at one passage, until it can be played fluently.  At first I doubted this approach, because my brain was so accustomed to always go forward, always get ahead, always go to the next thing.  Perhaps I watched too much television in those days.  In any case, what was frustrating at first soon turned golden; when I realized that I actually could master, or establish the strongest foundation at least, a passage in one sitting - a passage that in my old habits, I would have just played over and over again until it was passable, not focusing more or less attention than any other part of the score - I had the confidence to approach all my pieces that way.  I learn the pieces better, and much more thoroughly. 

There is a solution to every problem it is true.  Most of the repertoire pianists play was originally played by the composer, people who certainly didn't spend their daily lives practicing.  So to begin with, we know it is all possible.  I liked reading some old Bernhard posts, where he said, only spend a few minutes on this, and on that.  If the solution is not immediately evident, we can wear ourselves thin looking too hard; whereas if we stop and take a step back, often the answer will come by itself.

Walter Ramsey