Help! I have student that can't sit still.

[maryruth]

I have a young student that is driving me a bit batty. She's been taking lessons since October and it's not progressing well.  I've convinced her mother to try 3 15-20 minute lessons/week this summer.  But even that doesn't seem to be short enough.  Today she could barely sit at the piano long enough to play a 6 measure song through once.  The song only has 3 different notes (C-D-E).  She doesn't want to look at the notes.  She'll play it through however she feels like without looking at the page.  I point to where she should be looking.  She then says, "AHH, I'm running away....where's your cat? I need an audience..etc..."  I do this for every activity I try.   I've asked her if she wants piano lessons...She says yes.  At what point do you just tell the parent the kid needs to find a different hobby? I've tried everything.  Let's clap the rhythm.  Let's name the notes.  Let's draw the notes.  Let's sing the words.  Let's whatever and etc...Has anyone else had such a distracted student?  I've got 13 other students and none have any problem paying attention and staying on task.

[clariniano]

Time for a conference with her parents and her about expected behaviour in lessons. I had the problem with an 11-year-old student, who after I talked about the issue twice stopped the silly behaviour. I've also included a section on student behaviour in my lesson policies.

[jeremyjchilds]

2 questions,

How old is this student,

and Do you need the money from the lessons? or is it "on the side"

[maryruth]

The girl is 6.  So, she's getting to be old enough to focus longer than 5 seconds.  I've talked to her mother--frequently.  I've asked her if she has problems in school.  The mother told me no.   I just talked to the mom today after the lesson as she could tell she was "hyper".  Her mom has a hard time getting her to practice.  Part of the problem is that the mom and dad can't read music, so they have a hard time helping her.  Of course, the kid knows mom and dad's weakness in the area and says stuff like "Am I playing the right notes? Am I playing the right notes?"--as she's playing the wrong notes. 
No, I don't need the money.  Why do I torture myself?  Partly, I like a challenge, but I'm about ready to throw in the towel? 
I've come right out and told asked her "Do you want to learn to play piano?"  SHe says yes.  Once, I said, "let's practice reading these notes?"  What does she do?  She goes and sits in the corner of the studio in a cross legged yoga position, middle finger and thumb touching in a circle and says,  "Oooohhhmmmm, I must first center myself before I can read notes....."  I'm like, "Well, get over here and center yourself on this piano bench!"

[lostinidlewonder]

Sometimes children don't know how to cope with focused attention from an adult, you might be her only one on one teaching adult she has or has ever had for that matter. So if she is an attention seeker she may play stupid games with you, just ignore it and don't respond to it. Take out a book and start reading.

If you waste time that is free money for you and you can say to her Ill tell your mother that we had a good day just sitting down doing nothing. If she has no respect for any authoritive figure then it isn't your responsibility to change her attitude, rather the parents.

Of course she is a child so you have to be of course doing this without any negative emotion on your part, rather be assertive, if she wastes your time you should waste hers and just ignore her until she sits down and is ready to listen to what you have to say. I have done this with students who always go off at tangents. I'll simply state, get through what i want from you now then tell me what you like. This is a lesson after all not a game, not a social gathering, you are here to learn something so learn something then you can have fun and talk as much and play with my cat all day.

[lagin]

Actually I have the same problem with a 5yo boy.  He is moving in less than a month so I am chosing to just suffer through his wiggling and getting off the bench.  (this problem is just starting, btw).  If he was staying, or if one of his family members wasn't in the room tolerating it, I would put my foot down.  I might anyway, because my ignoring it, is only making it worse.  ESPECIALLY I would with that girl.  "I must center myself"  She knows, SHE KNOWS, exactly what she is doing.  It's not just the wiggles if she makes remarks and does things like that.  You can take it or leave it but this is what I'd say. 

"Sarah, do you want to learn piano?"  (She says yes).  "Then you must sit here on the bench for 10 minutes and work with me on this page.  If you do not, you will sit in this chair until your parents come back.  (Penalty chair).  "The choice is your's, Sarah."  (I say 10 minutes because at her age I would let her have a stretch after that.  She could jump forte, and tip toe pianissimo, and other constructive things on her "break.")  -My 5yo student actually loves doing that.  I use it as reinforcement know, lol.  2 songs, then jumping.  It really works!  When the chair comes, and it will at first, I would say, "you obviously don't want to learn piano."  She will say she does.  I'd say, "Well you chose not to this week.  Remember?  I told you the choice was yours.  We'll try again next week."  I wouldn't give her another chance till next lesson, or else she'll just think that a few measly minutes on a chair is actually the fun break she wanted.  I'd keep my cat in another room and tell her he's sleeping, too. 

You could try bribery first, like, you can play with kitty after lesson if you sit still for x minutes.  Or have good behavor stickers.  But kids are smart, and I'd go with discipline over bribery when they so obviously know what they're doing, and because they can see through the bribery.  Oh, and don't give her attention or play piano when she's in the chair.  Mark theory, or pretend too, but keep an eye on her, and don't have a lovely conversation either.  This chair is the unfun discipline chair SHE chose. 

Sarah will undoubtable test you on this for the first couple times.  You must not give in.  Watch, for she will start kicking her feet and then wiggling her bum, all the while seeing how far you will let her go before the chair.  Decide in advance what you will tolerate, and have a line that she must not cross established in your mind, and tell her that line so she knows too.  If her lessons are only 15 minutes anyway, she's not going to be in that chair that long.  If she ended up in the chair two or three lessons in a row, I would "suspend" her for a week.  And I'd warn her about that first if the chair became a habit so she could "choose" her own suspension if she wanted.  Always give a choice.  But always be prepared to keep your word.  Yes, I'm harsh, but kids are little, they aren't stupid.

[pianobabe_56]

With students who have a mere case of "the wiggles" I would suggest setting up your studio so that different areas are for different types of work. For the first 10 minutes you play a song at the piano, then you move to the sofa to work on flash cards/theory, then back to the piano, etc.

Obviously your problem is a bit more pronounced than that. The suggestions already made have been great!

[jeremyjchilds]

I ahd a student who was exactly like that. He was 5 and completely out of controll. I simply told him that if he really wanted to learn to play, he would have to not defy me. He did not start listening, so i told his parents at that lesson that we were done, and gave thier money back.

THe great thing is that the student who replaced him is wonderful, she's five also, and is so bright. I look forwared to her lessons, but I would dread his lessons.

If you ever look at a name on your schedule and dread it, then you should make some roster changes...

[maryruth]

Thanks everyone for the advice.  Yes, I think I need to resort to some "time outs".  I think I'll talk to the mother this weekend and let her know my plan before I resort to it on Monday if need be.  I do think the child is musical--has a good ear--just not sure piano is going to be her instrument.  She loves music, though.  At a lesson last month she proclaims, "I WANT TO PLAY BEETHOVEN!" and then she plays the first 4 notes of Beethovens 5th...So the next time she came back I had the first 20 measures in a simplified version for her.  When she got it she ran fevereshly out the door to her mother yelling, "look mom it's beethoven!"  But, then we try working on it and even something she absolutely loves remains difficult to focus on.  Friday amidst her running around she's yodeling the theme from Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik.  Although, this is juxtaposed with "you wanna here the version of Winnie the Pooh my dad taught me when I was little?....Winnie the Pooh, Took a big poo, he didn't know what to do, So he ate his poo, Winnie the pooh!"  AHHHHHHH!!!! 
I really like the kid is the problem.  I teach her cousins, too.  They are completely different--very serious and focused.  So, I have to be careful...Don't want to cause too much family tension between the mothers (they are sisters...)  The serious ones started with me because the mischevious one likes me so much.  As she told her cousins "You'll have so much fun at piano lessons!"  Well, rest assured, their piano lessons don't look anything like hers.  HA!
Anyways...enough of my hysterical ranting.  Friday was just very stressful.  It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who gets the wild students from time to time.  I just get paranoid that I've caused it.  Yes, the hypercritical piano teacher coming out in me.

[Astyron]

I need the income of every student I have.  Teaching privately and running a quartet is all I do.  Regardless, I'd drop that child.  They are rude, the parents obviously aren't implementing any kind of structure at home, and you don't deserve that kind of treatment.  Period.  I cringe when I read posts from teachers who put up with this kind of thing.  Why?  Why?  Why?  I've had students like this, and don't stand for that kind of behavior, if it's excessive.  Things I do:
 
*  Studio Handbook -- I go over this before ever beginning lessons with a new student.  Parents and children are told what kind of behavior I expect and that while some "brain breaks" happen with younger kids, we need to get back to the piano and focus.  I also advise that if behavior is out of control the lesson will abruptly end, the child given back to the parent, and no makeups will be given.  Parent often focus more on the $ investment than the other important gains from music lessons and don't want their money wasted.  They'll make sure their kids behave (if they have control over the child to begin with).
 
*  Reprimand the child -- I don't let them get completely silly.  With a stern voice I will say, "That's enough.  Sit down and get focused or the lesson is over."  If it's not as serious I may say:  "It's time to get focused again.  Enough silly time."  and if they don't I'll use 'proximity' and drop their name.  I'll touch them on the shoulder and repeat myself, "Maddy, enough."

* Occupy their mouth in lessons.  Make them sing along to everything.  Make them sing/say note names, or rhythms (ta, ti-ti, anything!).  Make them clap and count to a song.  If they won't, sit behind them and take their hands and make them clap.

*  A child that can't behave himself for five minutes shouldn't be taking lessons to begin with.  At the end of their paid period politely release them from your studio.

It's impossible (and a pointless waste of time) to try to reason with an immature 5 or 6 year old; even with an immature 11 year old.  If their parents aren't going to back you up and see to their behavior at home, why should you try to do it? 

Honestly, the moment the child did the yoga meditation thing I'd have ended the lesson with, "Since you're going to be rude and naughty, the lesson is over.  Goodbye,"  and handed the child back to their parents, then escort them to the door.   If you abruptly end the lesson and warn the child, " Strike 1.  You have one more chance to behave and focus, beginning at your next lesson.  After that I will no longer be your teacher."  the child may come around.  So far he/she has been testing you with their games and you've been loosing because you don't want to show them some discipline.  This child is choosing to play games with you, choosing to test you.  They can choose to behave as well.  You need to stop playing the game with little pawns... it's time for a knight to come out and play.  Motivating them with fun music is only part of what's necessary.  Discipline is the other.

[maryruth]

Above mentioned student did much better today.  On Friday when she left I told her mother it had been a terrible lesson.  The mother promised me then that she'd give her a lecture.  Well, it must have worked because she was on good behaviour and she had practiced. 

When we got to the end of the lesson I told her that she had behaved exactly as she should at all her lessons in the future.  I also let her know that in the future if she chooses not to behave appropriately she'd have to sit quietly in that chair over there for 2-3 minutes....

THe mom asked me at the end of the lesson how it went.  I said much better.  I thanked her for talking to the child.  I also told her what I told her daughter at the end of the lesson.  Hopefully, things will be better.  Mom told me she told her daughter that I'm a very popular teacher and that if she didn't behave I'd not have time to teach her.  The mother really fears that I will drop her...

[ptmidwest]

        A couple other points, possibly....

   Not all children this age have been taught (or have any experience) with how to behave in a piano lesson.

   This child sounds very bright. 

[maryruth]

Yes, I think this child is quite bright.  I think you're right, she's not learned how to "behave " at a piano lesson--we are starting to learn now.  I suppose you're right, though, how would she know otherwise?  She's the oldest child and hasn't seen other people take piano lessons. 

SHe does get compared a lot to her cousin (whom I also now teach).  Cousin is same age and very serious--could probably sit still for hours and focus.  My "wild child" often has told me things like "my cousin's an older six than I am"  or "I'm evil--my cousin said so". 

I think there'll be a lot of competition between these two--or at least maybe between their mothers who are sisters