Waldorf

[dveej]

I have a problem: a couple of great kids, 4 year-old girl and 8-year-old boy, asked their parents to give them piano lessons. (These kids happen to be the children of one of my bosses.) The problem is: they go to a Waldorf school, which means: I may not teach the 4-year-old to write the letters A through G and the numbers 1 to 5. (She already is able to write her own name.) This is due to the Waldorf philosopy of child development, much of which actually sounds not bad: no computers at early ages, no or little TV, writing of any kind must be introduced to the child by the Waldorf-trained teachers, etc.

I think I know what I have to do: teach the younger kid by rote, with plenty of parental involvement (I always do parental involvement anyway) and no trying to get the kid to feel confident about her ability to write, because I'm not supposed to teach her to write.

My question is: has anyone else had experience teaching piano (NOT recorder and voice, which are Waldorf-approved because they are "group", instead of "isolating") privately to Waldorf students? I would really like to know how to teach these kids without causing them a whole lot of cognitive dissonance and anxiety about writing, and I want to support their Waldorf teachers rather than be at odds with them.

Please advise!

[omnisis]

you got to be freakin kidding me!!!....No offense to you or anything but who the heck convinced some kid's parents not to learn letters by age 4?  I was already reading by that age...  But then I guess I learned incorrectly and that's why I'm not a genius like 99.9999997% of all Waldorff educated kids thesedays huh?  Seriously, are ppl just getting dumber or is there something in the water?

~omnisis

[omnisis]

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek earlier....It's not that I disagree with the philosophy behind the Waldorf school thing (that being one of a well-rounded, renaissance-like education) it's just that the execution of it is so typically nouveau-hippiesque in it's implementation.  Can't say that I disagree with the no TV rule though, there's hardly anything worth watching on there nowadays.

~omnisis

[pianonut]

teach the way you want, and let them choose the teacher (not decide your method).  you can tell them that you are willing to teach the letters in the waldorf manner (look it up on the internet) but that you cannot teach (especially the 8 year old) without some letter/note recognition.  if this is offensive, tell them to look for a music teacher at the waldorf school.

with my own kids, i learned that learning too many letters at one time can be confusing to kids with a bit of attention deficit, dislexia,  or very young (as in 4 year old).  instead of writing letter for them, ask, 'can you write the letter that sounds like 'buh.'  if they cannot, pull out a dotted outline of the letter and have them trace it a few times.  then, pictures of musical names to color (bach, beethoven). possibly make a 'b' pillow (kinetic and sensory kids like to feel shapes).  they are available for purchase to parents at limited too.  cheaper to make your own with felt, glue, and stuffed with cotton (which kids can do as a craft at home that week). 

you can be very creative without taking too many letters at a time.  start with the ones in their name - if that's agreeable.  maybe the parents will come to see your method of teaching as not anti-waldorf - but complementary.  you set the rules.

ps my son had reading difficulties, so i pulled him out and took a few years to get his reading skills up.  then, with my daughter, taught her to read by age 3 -4.  she was able to read in kindergarten (which i homeschooled) and then public first grade.  she was put into school at an early age.  she is still a straight-A student. 

[pianonut]

was thinking about the note-spellers, too, that are so helpful.  it helps a child by actually writing the note on the staff and then writing the letter below.  this could be done as a worksheet (taking only one note per lesson) and having the letters dotted below.  the larger the better - i've found.  somehow, the ones you buy are always too small for younger students.  take them to copy store and ENLARGE.  they can color pics with keyboard and color in the correct key associated, too.

[bernhard]

Never heard of Waldorf. Personally, I would not change my way of teaching to conform with someone else’s pedagogy. However there are several ways around it.

1.   Don’t teach “letters” if this freaks the Waldorfians. After all we are dealing with pitches. It is just a coincidence that we use the letters of the alphabet for naming the pitches. Use Do-re-mi instead. (A=La, B=ti, C= do etc.).

2.   “reading” music is a metaphor, no one is really “reading” anything. When reading a book we translate symbols (the letters of the alphabet) into sounds that have meaning (language) and therefore serve as model for our perceptions. When “reading” piano music we are actually interpreting a map of the keyboard (the staff) that tells us where to place our fingers (the notes). Pretty much like using guitar tabs. If you are unfamiliar with the concept, have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2406.msg20820.html#msg20820
(the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2713.msg23282.html#msg23282
(Teaching bass clef – the full explanation for the grand staff)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5090.msg48850.html#msg48850
(the score is tabs for piano)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,6704.msg66349.html#msg66349
(graphic illustration of how the grand staff relates to the piano keys)

3.   It is perfectly possible to teach someone to “read” music without any need for note’s names, just translate the note position in the staff directly into key position in the keyboard (as explained in the threads above).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[dveej]

Thanks, all of you, for the good ideas.

To clarify (and add more info):
1) These are the children of one of my bosses at a job where I play piano; and I love the whole family quite apart from any need to brown nose the boss, and I think I could get more students if my boss (their mom) likes my teaching. So far (one month in) she and the kids are very excited about it.
2) I have always felt that a good piano teacher can accommodate students with different needs, and to that end I have always eagerly embraced people with special "requirements" and made it an opportunity for myself to grow as well as for the student to learn to play and love music. I have had some INTERESTING students with INTERESTING needs...the stories I could tell...So this is just another challenge for me, and it is one that I fervently want to meet with everyone involved having fun with the piano-learning process.
3) The 8-year-old is already quite a good reader, and so using printed music is not an issue for him. But the 4-year-old hasn't learned all her letters yet, and is a bit scared of new stuff and new situations where she may fail (a perfectionist already! poor kid...). During the month we have worked, the first few weeks were spent mostly with the older kid, and the 4-year-old was learning what kind of person I am and whether she feels comfortable around me. At the first lesson she was too shy to sit at the bench and do simple things when I asked her to, even with the mom there; so I just bided my time and kept at her by having the mom sit next to her and asking "everybody" (meaning the mom, the older brother, and finally the 4-year-old) to do a particular task like "Find three black keys!!". So at first we weren't sure she would even take to me teaching her; but now, four weeks later, she sits right down and is eager to show me her latest piece. The mom can't believe it. So I can teach her something...But at the beginning I got what I thought was a set of books appropriate for her age, with lots of coloring and tracing and pictures to reinforce concepts I would teach her. Before buying these books I asked the mom: "Can she write her own name?" which is one of the questions I ask to ascertain the reading level of a child. The answer was yes; so I proceeded to buy these books, not realizing that her name was ALL she could write (but she prints it beautifully). I only figured this out when, on a page with the task of finding and coloring "A B C D E F G" she did "A" perfectly well, but with "B" she looked me in the eye and said a little apologetically "I can't do that". It was kind of cute how she did it (made my heart melt a little bit), and I hastened to assure her that that was fine and here is how to print "B"...but Mom stepped in and stopped that process. Apparently the teachers at her school really want to be in complete control of their learning to write. So I thought "OK, I won't have her write anything: I'll just have her recognize stuff, without generating it herself by writing." So I asked about flash cards: would THOSE be OK? The answer was an emphatic no.
4) So I researched for a while about Waldorf's educational philosophy on the Internet, and what I found gave me some options to work with: they like improvisation and "group" music making (recorders and voice are "group", not "isolating" like piano), and they like folk songs a lot. So I can use improvisation to teach some basic technique skills, and can also teach them to play folk songs, and these avenues seem fun and exciting. I'll be creating my own curriculum...but I've done that with every student I've ever had, so it ain't no thing.

I still have personal reservations, as osmisis seems to, about a 4-year-old who doesn't write the whole alphabet; but then there are other child development experts who say that reading too early is damaging (Bev Bos is one). Who knows? What I have to work with is a fun and very smart child who accepts me, as does the rest of her family, as a friend who comes over and teaches piano and sometimes hangs out just for fun with the whole family; so it's worth any "restrictions" because I think I can do something with this kid. Time will tell...

[bernhard]

2) I have always felt that a good piano teacher can accommodate students with different needs, and to that end I have always eagerly embraced people with special "requirements" and made it an opportunity for myself to grow as well as for the student to learn to play and love music. I have had some INTERESTING students with INTERESTING needs...the stories I could tell...So this is just another challenge for me, and it is one that I fervently want to meet with everyone involved having fun with the piano-learning process.

That’s an excellent attitude!

Here is something else that has occurred to me. You can try Candida’s Tobin superb pedagogy, which uses colour to teach musical literacy. Have a look at her website (and she is also a member of PS, although I have only seen one post by her so far –you could PM her – she is a very nice and approachable lady):

https://www.tobinmusic.co.uk/


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ptmidwest]

The "not-teaching-to-write-letters-yet" approach creates a wonderful opportunity for ear-training.  I agree with Bernhard about using solfege, and it
can be amazing with the four-year-olds. 

When situations like this come up in my studio, it is very exciting! 

[whynot]

When I was a kid, my whole family learned to read very young.  So, while I would never push a child to read early, it seems odd to actually hold them back on purpose.  But I'm not an expert in this matter (that's not sarcasm, I'm just really not!).  Excellent suggestions on this thing so far.  Along similar lines, I think, is what I do with young kids (or older ones having trouble reading and writing in general).  I refer to written notes as a drawing or picture of a sound/pitch.  I mean, it really doesn't matter what the note name is, except that it gives us a way to talk about it when things get more complex.  So in those lessons maybe I'll liken it to a drawing of something else, like my bad cartoon trees.  "Do you know what this is?"  --A tree.-- "Yes, it's a picture of a tree, isn't it?  But not actually a real tree from outside.  We know it 'means' a tree, yes?"  Then I point to a written note and say, "This is a picture of a sound.  When we see this picture, we know to make this sound (play the note, sing the note etc)."  Anyway, something like that takes pressure off the older ones, if they're intimidated, and maybe seems more to the younger ones like activities they already do.  The color thing sounds very interesting, I'll have to check that out.

I have Waldorf students, but they were already reading when I met them, so I never knew about all of this!  I like your adventurous spirit as a teacher. 

[Nordlys]

I have also never heard about Waldorf. But is it the same as Rudolf Steiner schools?