From op.2 to op. 109

[mrdaveux]

So I'm currently finishing Beethoven op.2 #2. A fun piece with some difficulties, but I found that in general it came quite easily to me.

Now I want to learn one of Beethoven last sonatas. Op. 106 is out of question, op. 111 is too deep for me to feel that I could do justice to it, and I don't like op. 110. Which leaves op. 101 and op. 109.

For my ability, op. 101 is easier. But I like op. 109 better. I know the jump from op. 2 #2 to op. 109 is pretty big, but looking at the score, I think that most of it would be OK. The part that I fear is at the end of movement #3 : the trills with melody on the same hand... I have never done that (each time I try to practice that type of device, I fail).

Can anybody help me with that ? How in the world do you play a trill with two fingers, the other fingers playing a melody above or below it, keeping it smooth and even ? Do you play the trill notes at the same time as the melody, or do you interrupt the trill for a fraction of a second to play the melody note ? Is there any method to practice it that is going to give me results (and please, if you haven't played that sort of thing, do not give advice... don't wanna be mean, just wanna succeed at it) ? Thank you.

[thierry13]

Can anybody help me with that ? How in the world do you play a trill with two fingers, the other fingers playing a melody above or below it, keeping it smooth and even ? Do you play the trill notes at the same time as the melody, or do you interrupt the trill for a fraction of a second to play the melody note ? Is there any method to practice it that is going to give me results (and please, if you haven't played that sort of thing, do not give advice... don't wanna be mean, just wanna succeed at it) ? Thank you.

I would never stop the trill for that. It would remove the trill's nice effect on the music. There is no particular tricks I can think of for that... just try it by yourself, you'll finish by get the trick yourself I guess.

[mwarner1]

Well, some pianists DO stop the trill momentarily. It really depends on the harmonic context whether or not this will be noticeable and/or distracting to the listener.

However, ideally you'll want to play the melody and trill at the same time. To do this, you're going to have to work out a couple things and start slowly. First, you need to figure out which note of the trill you want the different melody notes to fall on. For example, if you are trilling between a G and an A and you want to hit a G an octave higher as a melody note, you'll most likely want the two G's to coincide (unless of course the harmonic context calls for something different -- and sometimes the call is up to you). To be able to work this out efficiently, though, you'll have to figure out how fast you will trill. Will you trill in 8th note triplets? 16th notes? 16th note triplets? 32nds? Once you figure this out, a good idea would be to literally write out your trill on the sheet music AS 8th note triplets, or 16th notes, or 16th note triplets, etc. This way, you can see how the melody notes and the trill will line up. If they don't line up to your harmonic satisfaction, try changing the speed of the trill to something that works better. It will take some trial and error.

Now, of course, the mechanics are a different story. You're just going to have to start slow. I'm looking at the score now, and you are very lucky that (most of) the melody notes are not legato; that is, they are 8th notes with 8th note rests in between, so you don't have to connect the melody notes in a legato fashion. But I can tell you the REAL trouble spots for you are going to be BEFORE the long single trills (first in the left hand, then in the right hand) -- the double trills will be much harder. First of all, simply coordinating the double trill will be extremely difficult. But beyond that, BOTH hands will have separate melody lines going concurrently, and parts of these melodies ARE legato! Luckily, this only lasts for about 4 bars before moving into the left-hand single trill.

I've never played this piece, but I have attempted similar trill+melody motion in the third movement of the Waldstein sonata. I can't say that my attempts were successful, and trills still remain the weakest part of my technique. But I do believe that my advice is sound, and I hope you find it helpful.

[ramseytheii]

I had success with the trill passages in op.109, and op.111, and I hope this description can eb of some help, and that it is not wrong.  It is hard sometimes to describe what we do and better if someone who watches it, can describe it.
If you know what it feels like to play a trill continually at one volume, or such that you can adjust the volume however you please, you can play this.
Just begin the trill and let it go for a while.  Then when it comes times for the melodic notes, make sure you are prepared mentally, and rather than reaching for the notes with your fingers, go forward a bit with your elbow, and if you have to, I believe you slant the hand a bit to make sure the trill remains consistent. 
That being said it is possible to play the note and break the trill, and disguise the break almost completely (probably only a microphone could pick it up.)  Many pianists do that.

A while back I found a rare book, which was written either by Saint-Saens or Isidor Philip (a strange burp in my memory), that had only these passages from Beethoven's works compiled, and the author actually wrote out how they would have played the trills.  Many if not most were broken, some were measured (for example in the first movement of op.111, in the fugato development section, the right hand has a trill on top of four or five descending notes, that was measured out in 32nds).  See if you can find such a book.  I will search for the title, but be aware that it is a rare find.

Walter Ramsey