Staying professional.

[jeremyjchilds]

I have a problem. I am a fairly outgoing person, so I can have a tendancy to befriend my students and thier families. This is a problem because I then have a problem simply viewing this as a business, and raising fees is a problem, and dropping students etc.

Does anyone else have more experience with this? It's easy to say "just don't be thier friend" but I go and tune my student's pianos too, and the parents are inviting me to stay for dinner...I actually did once shame on me. either that or they will bring me stuff at the lesson (Homemade jams, gifts, garden produce, etc.)

What is the best way to not get sucked into this..cause we're wired that way in our social lives.. or is it just not a big deal?

[Appenato]

if they bring you stuff from the garden or gifts or whatever, that's nothing to be concerned about whether you're remaining professional. it's nice they actually do it, and accept it as a gesture of their appreciation of you and what you do! 

i can't help ya with the main issue of your post since i tend to befriend my students and families, too.... i'm still working on how to balance out being professional yet retaining an amicable disposition. thing is, being friendly puts the students at ease and we have fun at the lesson and it's not just boring to be "student" and "teacher". it's how i can share in their life and get to know them better so that we can both rise to our potential as student and teacher. i know for myself that because my second teacher considers me a friend and not just student, lessons are more meaningful because i know she cares and it's because she's not all strictly professional with me. ehh i dono where else i'm going with this or where this post came from.... just thoughts floating about in my mind this morning. carry on.

[anda]

I have a problem. I am a fairly outgoing person, so I can have a tendancy to befriend my students and thier families. This is a problem because I then have a problem simply viewing this as a business, and raising fees is a problem, and dropping students etc.

correct - a problem! i had the same problem, and still need to work on this (partly because people who see me for the 1st time still mistake me for one of the students) - but try to keep a very icy & distant attitude with the families of your students (that's the easy part); as for the relationship with the students, that's more difficult, cause you can't be distant with them too - just don't let them cross the line, and try to act as an older benevolent friend, and not as their "drinking buddy" (sorry for this expressions, that's all i could think of - english is not my forte )

best luck

[pianonut]

having a lot of students back to back probably saves time on those students that want to 'mull around.'   i tend to be guilty with my teacher by wanting many questions answered, as well as finding out more about music and how to get business - so instead of walking straight to the door, i sort of meander.  past the painting, sniff the flowers, (haven't stumbled on anything yet), sneek quick peeks at the coffee table to see what books (usually about 4-5 open at a time).  one time i got a paper cut and had to ask for a band-aid.  i'm not suggesting this.  in fact, i warned my teacher that i was trouble.  he's always very serious with me.  sometimes i try to distract him by telling him this or that has dust on it - but he is very hard to distract and gets right to the point/lesson. 

now, if i had a student such as myself, i don't know if i would have the patience.  it's just that you do have to have a line.  it's usually the time deadline.  doorbell rings.  student goes out, another comes in.  i suppose the most distracting thing that ever happened to me as a teacher was that a ballplayer asked to take piano lessons.  i didn't know he played baseball until he came in for a lesson.  i took a look at his massive hands and wondered if it would work (if he could play the piano).  it's funny, because the people that have crushes on you - you think are semi-retarded (like my teacher does me).  i was trying to show him some beginning stuff at the piano and he was just looking at me and  enjoying when i would hold his hand and tell him to relax.  so, like my teacher later, i dropped his hand and went over and got a rolled up newspaper to hold his wrist. (just kidding)  seriously, keeping things professional takes being business-like and not getting distracted or sidetracked by the student.  keep one step ahead.  and, guide them to the door by walking with them (gets them out faster).   

ps  sometimes good intentions can be sad.  i once brought my teacher a piece of homemade apple pie in a container with tin foil over the top.  unfortunately, while walking on the way with books and pie, i dropped the pie.  the tin foil obviously saved it from the ground, but i was feeling bad if i would try to have him eat it without knowing.  so, i told him everything.  'i brought you some apple pie.  unfortunately, it dropped on the ground.'  (is that student concern or psychotic behavior?  i really wanted to know how he would handle a strange situation.  would he eat it?  watching - as he politely accepted it.  set it on the computer table.  how can you beat such a polite teacher?  wonder if he threw it in the garbage after i left.  anyway, having manners is important for good repoire.  you can't insult a student by taking what they bring you - but if you eat it and don't like it - you're setting yourself up.  save it for when you can take a taste in private or decide to pitch.)

[Bob]

It's all about the mindset then.  Realize they can replace you.  They pay for your teaching services.

Do what you have to do on the business side.  Think of them in terms of a generic "student."

If you want to be nice, you can be nice.  You could teach them for free if you wanted.  You could be their friend if you want to, or if you need to in the lessons -- but that's quite still teaching them music. 

I do think a teacher needs to be the student's friend to some extent.  If things happen in their lives, you can't always be returning to music.  "I'm sorry you dog just died today.  But hey, how about those major scales?  Let's play one right now..."  A teacher can imply that they don't care about anything else the student is doing.

On the other side, there is a limit to how much the student or their family cares about what goes on in your life.  If the teacher is having a bad day, the lessons can't stop, and the student might not really care.

If the money stops, if the learning stops, the lessons will probably stop.  Some students will continue to take lessons even if they aren't learning anything, but that's not a great situation for the teacher. 

At a very basic level, it's just a consumer purchasing services -- time and expertise -- from the teacher. 

On the teaching end of it, I know that all my students can also be replaced.  I know eventually they will move on, so I'm not too attached to them.  When they leave, where will I be?  Only having earned a little more money?  Did I also gain experience and improve my teaching? 

Another thought about keeping things professional -- You can be nice, but still be hungry at the same time.  Being nice isn't feeding you.  You do need to ask for money for your time.  It's the practical business side.

That type of thinking keeps me professional and still friendly with my students without being too attached to them.

[jeremyjchilds]

I was waiting for Bob to jump in!!

Thanks for all the advice...I will try to incorporate all of that into my teaching...

From now on, I will have them adress me as "master Childs" and there will be a strict "no speaking" policy after the clock runs out of time... lol

thanks again all,

Jeremy

[Bob]

Don't forget a ruler.  They won't be too eager to be friends when you have your trusty ruler handy.

[whynot]

Why wouldn't we want to be friendly with our students in a really genuine way?  It doesn't mean they'll start expecting free lessons.  My students' parents tend to overpay me after a while, when they see how invested I am in their children, and by that time I'm often on quite friendly terms with the whole family.  Is there a concern that they'll stop practicing?  There are many reasons to practice, and fear of a stern teacher is only one of them.  If that fear is the only thing taking them to the piano every day, then they might find more fulfillment doing something else.  I think there's a very specific situation behind this general question, but I can't quite tell what it is.  You mentioned raising prices and dropping students.  My own two cents' worth on raising fees is that I set them high enough when starting a new student that I don't have to raise them during their time with me.  If they average five years with me, the cost of living doesn't change much in that amount of time.  On the other hand, every business raises fees periodically; I don't think your clientele would find that offensive if you need to do it, no matter how friendly you've been.  You can do it graciously, giving them plenty of notice so they can adjust their budget etc.  About dropping students, I've had to do this with children who seem to like me and enjoy their lessons, but are disliking studying the instrument in general.  I mean, I can't think of a situation where you'd have to drop someone who just loves to play, so really, you'd be giving them a welcome freedom.  I just try to have a sympathetic conversation privately with the student maybe two weeks in a row.  I start with how I really like seeing them every week and getting to know them a little bit, and I appreciate them working so well in their lessons (this is true... they're fine with the teacher, they just don't play at home, right?).  But that I sense they're not enjoying playing and maybe wish they were doing something else.  If they're polite, they'll either jump in in protest to spare my feelings, or sit in silent embarrassment.  I plough forward, cheerfully pointing out that we all care about different things and it doesn't hurt my feelings if not everyone loves the piano, because the world wouldn't even work if that were the case.  Nothing else would get done!  This is obvious to an adult, but children feel a lot of guilt when it's not working out, and I've had children burst into tears in sheer relief when I say this.  The last girl I cut loose was quite talented, and this was painful for me, but she just wasn't ready for the structure of lessons, she wanted something completely different right now.  I told her that I really believed in her as a musician and that her progress was important to me, but the one thing even more important to me was that she be happy as a person.   I can't describe the look on her face.  I told her, I'm going to give you an assignment today and we'll keep working for now, but go home and think about what you'd like to do next.  And if you want to do something else, or work with someone else, I'm really going to understand, just tell me.  And if you need me to talk to your mom, tell me that, too.  And she did quit the very next week, but I ran into her mom yesterday, who told me the child is taking up a band instrument, and the mother remembered it's one that I play.  She said the daughter had always liked me and wanted to study this other instrument with me!  So if you keep the doors open, you never know what might happen.  Sorry this was so long, I was just guessing at your situation...  best of luck.  One last thing:  if you want to encourage their respect, invite them to your concerts.  Students and their families become starstruck at seeing their teachers perform.  It's really helpful.

[RealPianist]

the difficult thing is how can we make the different that we are the student or the teacher, n what are we doing now? gossiping, or talking about the lesson or share together..
so either who are we, either student or teacher should notice that what should be done if we are in  a lesson or just gossipping n share about something...
so if we know exactly what are we doing, the teacher can stil be professional eventough you have good relationships with the student or the family.
so, if u are typically yell teacher (if your student doesnt practice) you can still tell them with no hasitate.
but when  you are sharing to each other you can be a friend of them, not the teacher again.

[jeremyjchilds]

Don't forget a ruler.  They won't be too eager to be friends when you have your trusty ruler handy.

I used to really want to use the ruler...but I found something even more annoying. Every time they make a mistake in thier tech, I go "ahh" or "hmm" or "oops" This works good when a lower level student is missing accidentals. (of course, I don't use this for regular mistakes-just the ones where I have been on thier case for a long time, and they aren't practicing it)

They hate hearing my "ahh" so much that they go home and practice non-stop so that they never have to hear it again...

[whynot]

Ha!  I'd still keep a ruler nearby.  Always good to have options.

[RealPianist]

Don't forget a ruler.  They won't be too eager to be friends when you have your trusty ruler handy.

What do you mean by trusty ruler handy, Bob?
maybe it will be sound silly if i ask this question, but i really dont understand.

[whynot]

Bob is joking about being ready to give unruly or unprepared students a little smack with a ruler.  I myself have felt the temptation.

[RealPianist]

thanks why not.
anybody have get the little smack with a ruler from your teacher?
what did you react it?

[whynot]

Well, my husband's piano teacher used to slap him across the face when he made a mistake.  How shocking is that???

[Skeptopotamus]

aww man when i read the title i thought this was going to be much more interesting.  what a let-down.

[maryruth]

About the Ruler....A friend of mine actually lived in fear of the Ruler during her 10 years of piano lessons.  She's get a ruler across the knuckles everytime she hit a wrong note!!!  Of course, she took piano lessons from a nun at her Catholic school....I don't advise the ruler....it took this woman years to overcome her fear of hitting a wrong note....I doubt you could play with relaxed shoulders our wrists or anything if that ruler was poised and ready to go!

My father's piano teacher was a chain smoker...he said he could always tell when he was stressing her out as she smoked many more cigarettes during the weeks he hadn't practiced!

[jeremyjchilds]

aww man when i read the title i thought this was going to be much more interesting.  what a let-down.

Sorry to let you down...but I'm definitely not going to jail anytime soon...

[rhapsody in orange]

Hee I used to have needles at the bottom of my wrists so they'll be poked if my wrists collapsed. It was a bad experience =(

[Aziel]

Too bad this didn't pertain to you having an affair...

[pianonut]

Don't forget a ruler.  They won't be too eager to be friends when you have your trusty ruler handy.

[thalberg]

Rulers....affairs....I struggle to see the connection....but maybe I don't want to.

[Jacey1973]

I have a problem. I am a fairly outgoing person, so I can have a tendancy to befriend my students and thier families. This is a problem because I then have a problem simply viewing this as a business, and raising fees is a problem, and dropping students etc.

Does anyone else have more experience with this? It's easy to say "just don't be thier friend" but I go and tune my student's pianos too, and the parents are inviting me to stay for dinner...I actually did once shame on me. either that or they will bring me stuff at the lesson (Homemade jams, gifts, garden produce, etc.)

What is the best way to not get sucked into this..cause we're wired that way in our social lives.. or is it just not a big deal?

Ohh there's no problem with being friends with your pupils, you sound a lovely teacher. I wish my teacher was a bit less professional and a bit more friendly!

[pianistimo]

i think it's a time issue.  they may have more time to chat at one time than another.  to respect their time is important.  after all, time is money.  trust builds over time, too, and most great teachers want to see results.  (goes back to practice before it's too late).  the ones that are too friendly end up sitting at dinner wishing they were playing the piano probably.  i'd rather listen outside my teacher's door, waiting for my lesson than have a huge discourse about 'friendly stuff.'  it's amazing how the piano can talk.  of course, you don't want to be out and out a mean teacher.  occasionally putting the fear in students is probably ok but i wouldn't want someone i was afraid of constantly.  they have to encourage you somehow (even with a raised eyebrow - or leaning forward with a look of concentration -- you know you've lost them if they are yawning and fiddling with a pencil).