Self-teaching

[dorjuanhoop]

     I'm an adult, and I've been taking piano lessons for year and a half, and before taking lessons, I was teaching myself off and on.  I could already read music and play another instrument.  I'm playing at maybe grade 4/5, but I'm not really sure about that.  I've gone through the first Hanon book (lesson 20), and am now working in book two.  I've been through the book of major scales and chords, and now I'm working on the minor scales and chords.  Along with all this, my teacher has mostly let me play whatever I wanted to play (I've learned four Chopin pieces (some of the easier pieces) and some other pieces out of the "Romantic Spirit" books 1 and 2.  My problem is this.  I really don't think my teacher knows how to teach an adults because she's always taught children.  I really like her as a person, but she's not giving me what I need.  I get very little feedback from her, and she's just  letting me do my own thing (her idea and maybe not a good one), and she's just there for guidance.

     I'm seriously thinking about not continuing with her because I can do all of this on my own.  I practice several hours a day and am very serious about what I'm doing, and I'd like more help than she's giving me.  If I do work on my own, I want to continue with the Hanon because it has really helped me, the scales and chords and Chopin and some of the othe Romantic composers, but is there something I should be doing - like maybe Bach - that would be beneficial to me?  I'd like to work on my own (which is basically what I'm doing anyway) and maybe find another teacher later.  Any advice is appreciated.

[m1469]

I am (currently) resolved that we are both never self-teaching as well as always self-teaching at the same time.  We are never truly self-teaching because everything we do and learn comes from somewhere or somebody else.  For example, you pick up a piece of Chopin's music to learn, and in its broadest sense, who is it that you are truly learning from ?  From where are you getting information ?  What is the difference between learning from somebody through hours of acquaintance with a piece of music they have composed, and having a formal teacher who has learned from ultimately the same source ?  Even if you are "self-teaching", you are still learning from something or someone.  There are of course practical answers in having a formal teacher, but one can see what I am meaning.

On the other side of the coin, nobody can make you learn anything.  They can only provide opportunities for you to learn, the rest is always up to you.  In this sense, I believe, one is always self teaching.

So whether to stay with a teacher or not, it's entirely personal.  There comes a time when the *opportunities to learn* in whatever guise that may be, are less (in either quantity or quality or both) with or without a specific formal teacher, than the alternative (whichever that may be).  Either way, it is always your own conscience which decides this, and rest assured you are looking out for your own potential to bloom.

As far as the specific things you are working on, there are many, many opinions on the matter.  Ultimately, no matter what anybody says or does, your own conscience is what must be convinced of its most useful path.  I would say, very serious students are willing to look at a broad spectrum of opinions (so as not to miss anything useful  ) and discern what is one's personal truth.

Just my two cents


m1469

[jazzyprof]

I think the study of Bach will do wonders for your technique and your ability to hear contrapuntally.  At this stage you might want to start with the Two-Part Inventions.  There's a lot of help available on this forum in the form of analyses and "how-to" tips (particularly from Bernhard).  Do a search.  Since you plan to work on your own you might want to buy the study edition of the Inventions edited by Willard Palmer.  It includes written out realisations of all the ornaments that might give you difficulty.  And do listen to several different recordings.

As to the matter of your teacher, I was in your same position a few years ago.  My teacher was used to teaching children, had never heard of the Bach Inventions (which I had started studying on my own) and gave me no feedback.  We parted ways after a few months.  After another year of self study I found a fantastic new teacher and I can safely say my playing has taken a quantum leap forward.  A good teacher can make a huge difference...

[m1469]

A good teacher can make a huge difference...

Just for the record (if there actually were one...LOL), I completely agree with this statement.


m1469

[whynot]

Bach.

And maybe a really good teacher to check in with one in a while, it doesn't have to be every week if your physical habits are good (healthy, not tense etc) and your motivation is good-- which it certainly is!

Best of luck! 

[ludwig]

I completely agree with the others that a good teacher is so important. I think you need someone for guidance, like whynot said, just to check up on you. I think when you get a good teacher, she/he will bring out the best in you and help you identify problems you never knew you had (it is often that you can hear what is wrong with other people's playing but not yours), thats why you should also maybe record yourself and play it back to yourself and others It is a very different thing teaching children and teaching adults, it depends what you want to get out of lessons also. If you find a good teacher and then talk about what kind of guidance you want at the first lesson or "interview", that'll be very helpful for the teacher and you Goodluck, its great you've taken up the piano =)

[jeremyjchilds]

Not having a teacher allows you to ignore your weaknesses...

Every self taught player that I know has two things in common. (Keep in mind that having skilled friends or mentors qualifies as a teacher...)

1) Unusually good at a specific component of piano playing.

2) Unusually bad at other important aspects...

Which is fine if you want to play video game songs for your drinking buddies...

I say this from experience as well as observation. Getting a good teacher took me from being a piano player that everyone thought was good (provided they didn't play) to being a piano player who is more rounded and confident in most situations.

Don't listen to your ego...listen to a master!

[m1469]

Sometimes, having a teacher can also make one lazy about addressing one's weaknesses ("teach will fix me up").   There are cases where one's awareness about what weaknesses need to be addressed will become more keen without the teacher.  It really depends on the people.

m1469

[ada]

Speaking from experience, my advice would be: get yourself a good teacher, even if only for a lesson once every few weeks. I learned up to grade 5/6 as a kid but decided I'd keep teaching myself when I returned as an adult. I've since had lessons and it's surprising what a teacher can pick up in terms of technique, finger position - lot's of small stuff that you probably wouldn't notice yourself and that can get ingrained as bad habits. He's also helped me improve pieces I was already playing and helps me draw so much more out of a piece. For examply, I was playing a michael nyman piece competently (ie, I was playing the right notes) but now I'm able to bring out all the different voices and cross rhythms. Plus I was doing lots of stuff wrong generally: ie, not leaning as my hands moved up and down the keys, playing too far down on notes, clawing my fingers too much - and my pedalling was crap. My point is that this is stuff I'd still be doing if I hadn't been corrected.

[jeremyjchilds]

Sometimes, having a teacher can also make one lazy about addressing one's weaknesses ("teach will fix me up").   There are cases where one's awareness about what weaknesses need to be addressed will become more keen without the teacher.  It really depends on the people.

m1469

I am not arguing here, but I was hoping to have this explained. Perhaps we were talking about weaknesses from different angles.. I generally lean towards the major discipline weakneses.. like poor sight, poor rythm, and poor tech (hand position, legato, arm-weight, and yes..scales). If your statement was referring to minor weaknesses (more creshendo here...hold this note there...) then yes I agree wholeheartedly.

Your statement "teach will fix me up" was one that I thought about for a while...I guess this depends on the teacher as much as the student. My teaching style is to teach the student how to learn, while influencing them to make disciplined choices about practice habits. (Attacking weaknesses, forgetting pride, Delayed gratification) Perhaps I don't understand your statement because I have never been able to "fix up" a student. I have suceeded in influencing a student  to gain the discipline necessary to make meaningful changes on thier own over longer periods of time.

Is there a teaching style where one can just "fix up" a student. If there is, then i would surely like to know about it and learn more. I would also like to know specific or hypothetical situations in which a student will become more aware of thier weaknesses without a teacher's guidance so that I can be more effective.

Please note that I belive in changing teachers periodically, but I still think that teaching yourself is never a good idea...although a convincing argument to the contrary could make me re-think.

[m1469]

Hi jeremy, I am not ignoring your questions to me.  For some reason my thoughts lately are particularly large and oversized (maybe they are pregnant  ).  I am having a difficult time getting them out and I have answers to your questions, just not all the words  .


m1469


*wonders if her thoughts look fat in this dress*