some suggestions for adults

[Latelearner]

I started to learn the piano at the age of 17, now I am 24. I can play all chopin's mid-level and high- intermediate pieces. I passed the grade 8 after 4 years of practicing. I practiced at least two hours a day. I don't believe that adults can't reach chopin's highest level pieces. adults actually learn much faster then children if they were trained by the tradtional methond. (not some trash books like alfred, bastien, or suzuki) If you are a serious learner, never waste your time on following those books. Be careful to find the right teacher. A good tearcher with a good method that focus on techniques will immensely save your time and money. If you have practiced six months or so and still have not heard or touched Hanon, crezny, fire your teacher immeditaly. If your teacher asks you to play sonatinas or bach's two part varitons with only a  year or so, fire that guy immeditaly. Adults can do as good as children. Howver, adults have to
pratice more. ( at least two hour a day not including breaks, there is no short cut to that) After
8-10 year of continuously practicing, playing chopin's high intermediate pieces is not imposible.
And If you can play chopin's pieces, even if the easiest pieces like the Nocturne in C minor or Eb,  you are finsihed. This the bottom line for most kids who stared at the age of 5 or 6.

[dreamaurora]

Well, latelearner, I do agree with you that being a late learner does not prevent us from becoming a good pianist, as being a good pianist is determined mostly by how musical you are, not how good your technique is. I am a late learner personally too myself, and yes, I started learning piano at the very old age of 17 too.
However, I do have to disagree with some of your points.

It seems that you equate good piano playing as being able to play difficult pieces. Being a good pianist also means being well-rounded in all different areas, such as your theory, musical knowledge, aural capability, and of course being musical. You misspeled 2-part inventions as variations, obviously you still have a much much longer way to go with your music theory. And ask yourself, are you just able to play out the notes ? Are you able to dissect and analyse the score , for example, I am playing an arpeggiated diminished seventh Bb chord on left hand. Can you tell me what's the requirement of playing Chopin pieces ?

Bottom line is ,yes you do have to practice harder if you are an adult, but there's no shortcut , you can't skip any steps that any good pianists went through. You should always be aware of this pitfall that many pianists have suffered, that is having a good technique without having a good musicality. That's why you should get a good teacher and trust him/her completely. And no, I don't think you should attempt Bach 2-part invention within a year of starting piano study.  

[Septimus314]

Just got my account and this will be my first post.  Well anyway I've been playing almost 3 months, but not quite yet.  I haven't heard or touched Hanon, my teacher has gotten me on sonatinas in less than a year...  Are you saying you think I should fire my instructor?  Oh and by the way I am 18 years old.
Since this is my first post I'll let you guys know a little more about my piano history.  I've finished my first book, know the major scales, I can play the first clementi sonatina (first movement) fairly well all the way through, but of course struggle a little bit.  I've learned the Billy Joel song "Piano Man", one of my favorites.  I know the entertainer..., and I'm working on a couple of classical peices, one by Bach(famous one's son) and one by Beethoven.  When I say I "know" these I mean I have them memorized, and the Clementi I have memorized but still need to practice more to get perfect.
Sorry this is longer than I expected, but I'd just like to add I am very impressed with many of the people at this forum, as I have read many of the posts.  Many of you seem to be very good at piano, and that is what I aim to achieve.

[Hmoll]

Latelearner,

I guess you're trying to endear yourself with the teachers who visit this forum, are very qualified and creative, and who might utilize Bastien, Alfred, and Suzuki in their teaching.
The fact is, there are a lot of very good teachers who use these methods, and for you, a self-described intermediate player, to pass them off as trash, and say any teacher who uses them should be fired, is an uninformed and arrogant statement.
Also, as far as Hanon and Crezny - whoever he is, but I assume you mean Czerny - are concerned, while Czerny in moderate doses is useful, many very advanced pianists, and very good teachers do not think very highly of Hanon. The reason being his exercises often promote mindless repetitious playing of the same pattern over and over, that many think is a waste of time. I'm on the fence myself with Hanon.

Also, while I agree that consitent practicing is important, I don't see why adult beginners' playing cannot progress if they practice less than 2 hours per day. A real beginner might practice 1/2 hr per day at first, later might move up to 1 hr per day, and if they want, can move up to 2 hrs. per day.  Most adults I know have jobs, families and other commitments, and do not have the two hours per day to practice, so for you to say that is some sort of requirement sounds a little didactic to me.
People progress at different levels including adults. I know a few adult beginners who love to play the piano, but are not trying to break any records.  

[OlderGuy]

Guys, do you consider yourselves late learners? LATE learners??
You gotta be kidding me.  I'm  55 and I started 1-1/2
ago from ground zero.  
I take weekly lessons and practice in avarage 1/2-1 hour every day.  I have just finished Clementini's Sonatina, and started Mozart's K3.

The problem is if I don't keep practicing a piece after
I learned it, in about a month or two I almost can start to learn it all over.

Hannon: my teacher says: useless, to repetitious, boring.  Cherrny: I am doing his 599 series.  Good stuff.

The advatage learning as an adult: is better understanding, motivation.
Disadvantage: we tend to be less patient, want results faster than we are capable of.
  Peter

[CloUd^-^]

i totally agree with u pple...(this is my first msg n i have been just reading the forums by u guys)
well....me started piano 2 yrs ago and am now 16...i will be going to nafa to pursue music after my o levels...

all that is needed is practicing in the correct way...no matter what kinda methods u use...as long as u fully understand the method u learn..u can progress real fast...

i started of with czerny 599 2 yrs ago and now...u all wouldn't believe it...i finished fantaisie impromtu..its basically how u relax on the keys and how u treat every note as equal importance...all i wanna say is...no matter wat kinda methods u using...its useful as long as u put ur heart n soul in it!

[buck]

Hihi.  This is my first post.  Hope to learn something from the forums.  

A liitle abt. myself:  I'm 24, started learning the piano at 10yrs.  I was rated to be a 'slow' student by my teacher, who only allowed me to register for Grade One when I was 12 (And my Dad had to do it for me because she was skeptical abt. me passing).  After my exams (passed it with merit), I stopped.  Played some piano for leisure.  

Recently I started again (abt.1-2mths ago), whic makes me an adult learner?  Started first with Hanon by myself.  Now almost completed the first part.  I must say it is a good exercise for the stiff fingers.  Although I exert alot of force on the keys.  Onto Czerny Op.599, can't say much abt. it yet.

I was wondering if any of you had this problem of exerting excessive strength on the fingers?  I can hit most of the notes correctly, but I just couldn't manage to follow the expressions (p, mf, f, pp, and etc..)  While playing soft, I can't switch to forte and back at all.  Any good advice I can take?  Thanks.  

[dreamaurora]

First thing, if you are hitting the keys with excessive strength, it means you are not using your finger weight to hit the keys. To produce forte tone, all you need to do is just curve your finger, lift it slightly high enough, and let it fall freely on the outer edge of the keys while using minimum force to control the dynamics. This is one of the most basic technique of piano playing, which unfortunately , many pianists ( mostly self-taught ) get it wrong. You have to be aware not to move your wrist too.

This is what I suggest, though I am not really fond of doing Hanon. Take your Hanon first few exercises or scales. Practice very very slowly, follow the finger action i describe above, pay attention to the tone u produce ( all must be even and loud ) , and also look at your finger action to make sure its correct ( that's why you have to practice it super slow ). The listening part is most important, you must make sure that the tone you produce is firm and even , this is actually best to left to a qualified teacher to train you. If you follow this following principle, you will not strain your arms or get RSI. I practice at least 5-6 hours a day with a 2 hour technical study portion, my hands will get tired, but never painful. If your hand or arms get painful, that means you are using wrong techniques.

[buck]

Hi dreamaurora, thanks for the advice.  I'll go try that out and get back to you.  

[DepravedPianist]

I just wanted to drop my 2 cents. I started at 21, and although I've played many instruments (I mean A LOT) the piano was never in any way the same as the previous enevours I took. I'm pretty obsessive about my studies however and accomplished alot by playing the piano all day and all night while in college (still am). Here are my suggestions-

1. Use a metronome-They slow you down and help you become more rhythmic.

2. Put the rhythm in your body. It usually looks like your bobbing your torso up and down to the beat. Move around alot while you play. Let you head move in circles to the rhythm as well.

3.Move your upper arm out and in to accomadate the hands. Never reach with fingers, just move the whole apparatus.

4. READ EVERYTHING, LISTEN TO EVERYTHING!!!!! You studies as a pianist do not end when you walk away from the piano. Classical music is a way of life. The piano is our slave driver. You don't punch the clock and tell your slave driver that your done for the day. Beethoven once said...

"There is so much to be done on earth, do it soon! I cannot carry on the everyday life I am living; art demands this sacrifice, too. Rest, diversion, amusement, only so that I can function more powerfully in my art."

-From his journal 1814

5.Use Hanon at first, review him later as needed. Czerny is your friend. op599, and 139 are great for beginners.

6. Having a JS Bach obsession is a good thing. If you don't get one.

7. For the sake of art go by the 1981 recording of Glenn Goulds Goldberg variations. Listen to it every day!!LOL!!

If you heed this COMMANDS, I promise no harm will be done.

Good luck, and it's all out or not at all. Music is to important.