Sanding and Voicing Hammers

[c18cont]

Friends..(?),

Is there a thread/site, on filing/voicing (pref. only that sub..) anywhere? (Mostly from observation's from amateurs about sound, and how good they were able to get the service of hammers rendered, rather than highly tech...)  .and ...

Anyone care to give their personal experience on their piano, OR.. on heavily used pianos (in school use, for example)..for comparisons...?

I am remembering some I have seen when I worked, and many were BADLY grooved...and never corrected....but I SAW attempts to perform this highly skilled service....seldom well done....(!)

Regards,    John

[jeremyjchilds]

I'm not sure what your question is...

are you looking to perfom this repair by yourslef? This repair is a very important procedure because it improves tone quality greatly, as well as preserves the integrity of yur center pin bushings...but a poor job will produce worse results than doing nothing at all, in both mentioned regards.

This filing procedure is relatively easy, but the real difficult thing here is not the filing, but deciding what else need to be done. In my opinion, the hammers should be filed down anytime the strings can enter the hammer completely. You can do this minor adjustment a few times, and usually get away with it.

The problem is that for older pianos, the grooves can be as much as  1\8" deep, and removing that much material (and then a little more) can cause the piano action to be greatly out of propler geometry. Thus needing a full regulation, which may not even be enough, or a new set of hammers (especially if the treble hammers will end up with exposed wood.)

Simply filing the hammers could make the piano more diffidult to play well.

Another concern is voicing the freshly shaped hammers...once they have broken in for a while. Do you want the tone harder or softer...

Please let me know what kind of pianos and what condition you are talking about.

[c18cont]

Hello, Jeremy, Yours is of real interest for anyone...

Actually, I am just wanting additional info, as I have seen so much NOT done well in this regard....I am not looking at a particular instrument, but piano in general...(but a tech is going to touch up the timbre on mine..).

I have experience with organ, and worked as a tech for a couple of small co's. as a youth, where there was also a good bit of piano work done as well..I saw different things done and sometimes poor work performed...I never learned more than basic tuning on piano...my job was the pipes...

I am interested in your measure for the TIME to look at re-surface work for the hammers..... and may have simply missed it in the past from other sources.....

I  see you give the point where the strings "can enters the hammer completely..." as the time they should recieve attention...so I assume you mean the string would be deep enough to be at or below the top edge of the hammer surface....Great....Kind of thing I am not as familiar with as I would like to be...

I believe I can safely say that I have seen MANY that were that far, or even much more still used in practice rooms at some schools..(I used to be an elected official with a state music education association, and traveled looking at  conditions and equip., during the summer months...)

My own piano is new, and it is NOT as even as I would like.....(The new tech I found agrees...) and we are going to do a minimal voicing to match the quality of timbre up a little better...I personally, would not attempt...The technique seems a bit touchy to me, and I would never assume to do it without having the needed training....even though I learned some pipe voicing..(a completely different fish, of course...)

Hope to hear a few other comments on voicing if you think of anything, and I still wonder if there is a thread here already about this...I never saw it....but will try another search....Friends?

My Regards to the list....and to Mr Childs..!   John

[jeremyjchilds]

Hey John..

Well, as far as sanding the hammers, it takes me about 1-1.5 hours once I have tha action at my place. (this assumes that i am not makin any action adjustments, which I almost always do..) I sand by hand only, and never use a motorized tool. Some poeple do it well with a motorized tool, but many do not, I would rather just spend the extra time, and do it slowly...

You mentioned that you piano was new...Brand new??
because even if it has only been used a little, your tech will probably touch up the hammers (sanding)  to make sure they are all striking evenly, since viocing has a lot to do with hammer shape as well as hardness. Be sure that you communicate very clearly with him about what you want the sound to be like...The tech's taste is not always the pianist's taste...

As for your key touchieness, (Other than for the fact that I don't know exactly what that means) it could be any number of things, but one way to narrow it down is to open to front of your piano and move some notes in the action with your hand (where the key would normally trigger it) If the "touchieness" is there then it could need center pin work, or a host of other adjustments...if the touchieness is not in the action, then try moving the key up and down to see if there is resistance, if you're lucky your keys have just acclimatized and bushings need to be eased. Or your key balance leads or trigger weight may be out of whack. (which is more serious than key bushing problems)

I probably don't need to be saying this, cause your tech probably knows what he is doing...while you're at it, see if you can apprentice under him, being a tech is a great job

[c18cont]

Hi Again,!

Thanks for a kind reply...Others, please respond, as I never meant this to be a simple two way conversation...I thought a re-hash of voicing might be of general interest to others as well, as it seems to me it is neglected at times.....

As to my piano, it is brand new, and has probably no more than 60 hours on it. It is actually fine in action. The "even" I mention isn't action; I mean the sound quality...; a few notes are a bit brighter than others...of course I realize he will re-check the action anyway...I actually meant that to do the actual voicing seems to be a "touchy" area of work... , not that the action was touchy...

I do like "bright"; always have, and it is a piano that fits that description well, so it suits me very well..(It is a Ritmuller 5"3"...)..I will simply try to get him to keep the bright-and tone down a tad, the few notes that are almost strident at higher volumes...

Let me know if you think of anuthing else, and thanks again for your kindness!

John

[gfiore]

 Go to the PTG website www.ptg.org and do a search on the pianotech archives. Tons of info regarding shaping and voicing many different types of hammers.

[c18cont]

Hi Friends,

I DO appreciate the info on the PTG; I enjoyed it, and it does have  a great deal of material, much of it not too bad for a novice to understand...

I am more interested, however in personal experience and observation...(which I am not getting a lot of.. ) in regards to the issue of voicing...I am looking at the problems encountered in getting a real balanced sound and also still would like advanced owners, having owned a piano for many years, to mention how often it was Filed and Voiced during their ownership...and if it was successful as well.

I do have a pretty basic understanding, and am looking forward to working with the Tech I have found, who has an excellent reputation...In getting a more "smooth" overall timbre, or tone on my new piano...

Thanks again Gfiore, for the suggestion... I do believe in this organization.

John

[c18cont]

The archives are a great resource,

No surprise, but it does take a bit of time to find material, at least to this point...I am going to try some other search methods  on the archives...See if I can get better..

John

[jeremyjchilds]

One problem with getting an even tone is that it is not always a viocing problem, The strings could be aligned incorrectly, the downbeariung could be uneven, or the strings may not be seated correctly to the bridge. Or it could be a design flaw in the scale or construction of the  particular piano

What I am trying to say, is that i have found a perfect viocing to be elusive, if the only tools I use are my voicing tools...

[c18cont]

Hey again and thanks!,

I understand...and am not surprised at the many variables that might have some effect on the Timbre and tone of the piano...I believe that I have a good technician, and I will just see what he finds after he tunes it again, and starts checking more closely...Hopefully it will work out well with his service...

Don't recall if I mentioned, that I was simply unsure of the stores prep to begin with, as they use a very recently prepared man with more background in moving pianos rather than the more technical aspects...He was just doing the moving about two years ago....Don't actually know when he began service, but he is not a PTG member....

Regards, John