Best technique of the 20:th century

[brewtality]

So many could be added to that list:
Kissin - could ANYBODY in history match this guy's speed, articulation, accuracy and control on such a consistent basis?  (The answer, BTW, is no).

WRONG.

The Hamelin and Lisitsa comments are laughable.

[stevie]

how about Hofmann who only has 3 votes! This must surely be because most people haven't heard him play, otherwise I'd question the hearing abilities of some of the forum members. Hofmann and Cziffra's techniques were superior to Rachmaninoff's.

in terms of finger technqiue i may be inclined to agree that hofmann and cziffra are comparable in their restective primes...but how were hofmann's octaves?   

[sevencircles]

Hamelin - I know his recordings, but have you ever heard him live?  Sometimes (often) it can be a slop-fest...ah, the miracles of modern editing!  He simply chooses to play repertoire that many pianists don't, so there is no-one to compare him to - but I'm SURE that Kissin or Volodos could do what he does, if they chose to...
Bartok, Saint-Saens, Busoni - we just don't have enough to judge them by, unfortunately...

'

I haven´t heard much of Hamelin live but I have got the impression that he skips notes here and there when he plays less known pieces.

but a slop-fest........

Anyone agree about that?

Volodos would beat him technically if he started to play at the age of 5 like Hamelin did and skipped the alcohol, I don´t doubt that.

but how were hofmann's octaves?

His hands were so small that even an octave was a painfull stretch for him



We could read about other people:s reports about Busoni, Saint-Saiens etc.

If for instance Rachmaninov said that Busoni had better technique then any other player then we can assume that he was propably easily up there with the best of todays players. (I don´t know if he said this or not).

Saint-Saiens was rumoured to be able to play Liszts hardest pieces after only one hearing.  

[brewtality]

in terms of finger technqiue i may be inclined to agree that hofmann and cziffra are comparable in their restective primes...but how were hofmann's octaves?   

There is a common misconception that Hofmann's octaves were slow, not at all! They were good, maybe not quite as good as Cziffra and Horowitz but certainly respectable nonetheless. Hofmann's fingerwork, I feel, surpasses Cziffra due to the eveness and clarity.   

[sevencircles]

Rachmaninov had surgery to remove skin from his fingers.

He had this done to be able to stretch further.

His works has  many 10:th but Rach himself is said to been able to stretch a 14:th 

Why didn´t he have larger stretches in his works in general?

It´s true that hardly anyone else could play it but wasn´t that the purpose with his surgery in the first place.

I assume that he played these large intervalls at times but were there really any pieces where you have to stretch a 13:th or even a chord featuring C,Eb,G,C,G with C in the bottom and then up.

[practicingnow]

The Hamelin comment is not laughable - here's why...
Among other things, Hamelin slopped up the Chopin Barcarolle live...could you imagine Cziffra playing a sloppy Chopin Barcarolle?  Or Kissin?  Or Berman?  Or Volodos?  I'm not saying he doesn't have really good technique, but the greatest EVER wouldn't be sloppy playing a Chopin Barcarolle live, period - and it wasn't because he was taking risks, or because of a memory slip, just innacurate fingers....
About Godowsky Etudes, they are truly physically difficult, and mentally tough, and memorizing them certainly takes longer than most pieces, but not difficult to execute cleanly once you've taken the time to master them and they are in your fingers.  Certain pieces by Liszt, however, are more difficult, no matter how much time you spend on them - Feux Follets and Don Juan, for example, or the HR#6 or Erlking transcription - these are true tests, yardsticks or pure technique...BTW have you heard Kissin's live Feux Follets or Erlking?
In time, as more pianists venture into playing the Godowsky Etudes, this comment will prove itself to be true...I give Hamelin great credit, though, for having the courage to tackle that repertoire more comprehensively and masterfully than anyone else up till now, and with truly great technique and beauty...I just don't put him in the top 5, or even 10, until he performs LIVE the pieces against which all techniques throughout history have been  measured - the Liszt ones mentioned above, the trickier Chopin Etudes, etc.  Only then can we truly compare, right?
From what I have heard from Lisitsa, she is amazingly fast, clean, and has great variety of touches - yes I would include her...no, I don't laugh at her technique...
OK - sorry for the long post - I'll stop now!   : )

[sevencircles]

Among other things, Hamelin slopped up the Chopin Barcarolle live..

Was this recorded and when did it happen?

Are you sure that it wasn´t just was a very bad day for him?

He admitted that he doesn´t practice more then 3 hours a day these days and that´s not very much for a player of his caliber.

[janne p.]

Hamelin - I know his recordings, but have you ever heard him live?  Sometimes (often) it can be a slop-fest...ah, the miracles of modern editing!

I have a live recording of him on video...there is no sloppiness whatsoever. The pieces recorded include Chopin-Godowsky Etudes nr 1 (op. 10 no. 1) and nr 13 (E flat minor for the left hand); Alkan-Aesop's Feast and Jakob Gimpel-The Marines Hymn (on an Offenbach melody.) Not the easiest concerto pieces, and there is nothing to remark on concerning clarity, articulation, speed, strength or musicality. So my guess is you saw/heard him on a really bad day or he was unfocused.

[da jake]

You have a live video of Alkan Festin Desope? OMG. Can you post it please? PLEASE? 

upload --- > http//www.yousendit.com

[stevie]

yes! i know what video you have, the swedish documentary about hamelin?

i havent seen it, is there any way you could possibly upload the whole thing?   

[janne p.]

Yes, it's the swedish recital/interview programme. And no, I have no means of uploading it, sorry :/ I've got it on an VHS tape but no TV card or whatever you need to "record" it onto my computer in video format.

[practicingnow]

It could have been an off day, yes.  Actually, out of the three times that I heard him live it was two off days and one on, I thought.....
To put it simply, in order to judge a pianist's technique, you must hear him playing standard repertoire live - that's really the only way to judge him vs. everybody else.  You can learn more about a pianist's technique hearing him play Chopin or Liszt Etudes, or Schumann Toccata, or Brahms-Paganini, or even a Schubert Sonata(!) rather than the most obscure pieces that no one else is playing. 
I know alot of people enjoy Hamelin, and that's cool - I don't want to ruin that - he's great, and I won't say anymore about it!  : )

[stevie]

i think you need to witness the video of him playing alkan's op39no10...

its the most technically stunning piano video ive ever witnessed.

[chromatickler]

The Hamelin comment is not laughable - here's why...
Among other things, Hamelin slopped up the Chopin Barcarolle live...could you imagine Cziffra playing a sloppy Chopin Barcarolle?  Or Kissin?  Or Berman?  Or Volodos?  I'm not saying he doesn't have really good technique, but the greatest EVER wouldn't be sloppy playing a Chopin Barcarolle live, period - and it wasn't because he was taking risks, or because of a memory slip, just innacurate fingers....
About Godowsky Etudes, they are truly physically difficult, and mentally tough, and memorizing them certainly takes longer than most pieces, but not difficult to execute cleanly once you've taken the time to master them and they are in your fingers.  Certain pieces by Liszt, however, are more difficult, no matter how much time you spend on them - Feux Follets and Don Juan, for example, or the HR#6 or Erlking transcription - these are true tests, yardsticks or pure technique...BTW have you heard Kissin's live Feux Follets or Erlking?
In time, as more pianists venture into playing the Godowsky Etudes, this comment will prove itself to be true...I give Hamelin great credit, though, for having the courage to tackle that repertoire more comprehensively and masterfully than anyone else up till now, and with truly great technique and beauty...I just don't put him in the top 5, or even 10, until he performs LIVE the pieces against which all techniques throughout history have been  measured - the Liszt ones mentioned above, the trickier Chopin Etudes, etc.  Only then can we truly compare, right?
From what I have heard from Lisitsa, she is amazingly fast, clean, and has great variety of touches - yes I would include her...no, I don't laugh at her technique...
OK - sorry for the long post - I'll stop now!   : )

this is a very objective opinion and i respect that. in fact much of what you pointed out is quite true. from the various live audio and video recordings, it is obvious hamelin does not have an invincible technique. even the alkan 39/10 video stevie refered to contains some VERY audible mistakes. his general accuracy is indeed below volodos judging from their live recordings. whether their repertoire is of comparable difficulty is another matter.

however i do rate hamelin's technique above lisitsa. she plays fast, with admirable control considering her tempo choices, and with these 2 criterion satisfied she is definitely NOT clean. the videos on her site demonstrate this clearly. her don juan is taken at record-breaking tempo (13 and a half minutes with the fastest finale by quite a mile) and in some places accuracy becomes a complete joke. she even comes to a halt on the descending thirds due to her over-optimistic tempo, more than once i might add.

katsaris should definitely be up there.

but the most overlooked contender is lang lang without a doubt.

[da jake]

If Berman is mentioned, Berezovsky should be as well. The vid of his live Transcendental Etudes are just as stunning as Berman's Melodiya studio recording. The Wilde Jagd is even more controlled than Berman's incredible Live Budapest recording.

Though I find Berman more exciting, I'd say that Berezovsky has the better control - and ultimately the better technique.

I also think that Hamelin plays better live if the stakes are higher. He obviously prepares much more for big recitals like Wigmore Hall (some of the most incredible live feats ever) than the little-publicised ones. Just compare the Supervirtuoso Vid footage to the Alkan Op 39. While the latter is incredible, you still get the sense that he prepared much better for the former, seeing how it would be seen by a bigger audience.

[mephisto]

ig we should find out wich pianist that has the best technic than we would have to take tests on them.

But based on the recordings I have and have heard Pollini and Hamelin stands out.
Boulez` 2. sonata has to be inzanely heard and he has a lot more controll than  Biret and  Jumppanen- The same can be said about his Bartók 2 and petrouchka. I am not sure wich one of them tough.

-The Mephisto

[sevencircles]

I checked out the Lisistia video of her Playing Don Juan!

I like it fast but I didn´t like her playing at all.

Listen to Barere for a fast and tastefull recording of Don Juan!

Quite funny that she looks nothing like a pianist and more like she had the oldest profession in the world 

[quasimodo]

Quite funny that she looks nothing like a pianist and more like she had the oldest profession in the world 

 

[stevie]

HAHAHAHAHAHHHHA

that is the very reason people(hetrosexual males) think shes so good!

[chromatickler]

HAHAHAHAHAHHHHA

that is the very reason people(hetrosexual males) think shes so good!

to be fair, it's not the only reason

[stevie]

she is good, but she is more famous than for example - pavel raikerus.

lisitsa is a moderately attractive woman, and pavel looks like he was born out of the wrong hole.

both are really talented, but lisitsa gets famous...why?

yep, you guessed it.

[orlandopiano]

about kissin, his technique isnt the best.

judging from a live video of la campanella, the final section, he plays it at the same speed as yundi li, but with about 25% less accuracy.

I can't think of many who have a more pristine clean technique than Kissin. Find me a more perfectly played played Prokofiev Etude op.2/3 at that tempo. Find me anyone who plays the ossia passage in Rach 3 3rd movement like that. And while Berezovsky and Mei-Ting may play Feux Follets a few seconds faster, no one plays it as cleanly as Kissin and with that dynamic range (and it's still blazing fast). Same for the 28/16 Chopin Prelude. I wish he'd try the Chopin-Godowsky.

[quasimodo]

Okay, Valentina Lisitsa is my favourite pianist, for me she's the best ever. I don't care if she has the best technique or what. What I'm sure of is that she's got a very generous musical and general attitude (hence all the free stuff available on her website - btw she has just posted a lot of new vids there). Everything she plays is a lot of fun and that's worth all the technique of the world.

And comparing her to a *** is just the most idiotic thing I ever read in this forum. No woman deserves to be treated this just because she's a good-looking blonde.

BEHAVE !

[chromatickler]

And while Berezovsky and Mei-Ting may play Feux Follets a few seconds faster, no one plays it as cleanly as Kissin and with that dynamic range (and it's still blazing fast). Same for the 28/16 Chopin Prelude. I wish he'd try the Chopin-Godowsky.

well, i don't believe you can get any cleaner than meiting in the feux follets. and the 16th prelude, there is a dong hyek-lim live recording that is faster and virtually without pedal. kissin has a very imposing all round technique, but im not sure he outright OWNS anything from the technical repertoire.

[sevencircles]

Quasimodo: Lisistia has got brilliant technique and her looks make her standout from all the boring pianists out there.

I think she should wear a dress with a funny print on the back like " Yes, I´m the pianist, not the stripper" or something like that.

That would prove that she has got something very few classical musicians got and that´s humour and selfdistance.

Someone mentioned Kissin and I must say that he is one of the top 5 technical pianists in the world right now.

[espresso]

ok, he may not have the greatest technique, but some of the Pogorelich's recordings are amazing.  Chopin's prelude No.16 for example, and of couse the Scarbo by ravel.  He apparently played a mean Islamey, although I have not heard it.  Anyone has a live recording of some sort?

[orlandopiano]

well, i don't believe you can get any cleaner than meiting in the feux follets. and the 16th prelude, there is a dong hyek-lim live recording that is faster and virtually without pedal. kissin has a very imposing all round technique, but im not sure he outright OWNS anything from the technical repertoire.

Just because Kissin doesn't own the fastest timing for any particular piece, doesn't mean he isn't worthy of consideration for best technique.  I've seen and heard enough Kissin to conclude he simply chooses to play pieces at his tempos, and trust me, they aren't the fastest he is capable of.  The sky is the limit in terms of speed for Kissin, and if he wanted to I am sure he could play any of those pieces faster than anyone. While his Rach 3 gets some criticism for his interpretation, there still isn't anyone who plays it with a more refined clarity.

I don't know about this Dong Hyek-Lim live recording of 28/16. Anywhere I can download it?

[sevencircles]

I was very impressed by what I heard by Konstantin Sherbakov

What do you think about him?

[chromatickler]

I've seen and heard enough Kissin to conclude he simply chooses to play pieces at his tempos, and trust me, they aren't the fastest he is capable of.  The sky is the limit in terms of speed for Kissin, and if he wanted to I am sure he could play any of those pieces faster than anyone.

well, i dont think you can be THAT conclusive with any pianist. indeed, Kissin often gives the impression of plenty of speed in reserve. but sometimes he DOES let his limits show, at the end of la campanella for example. i think it's fair to say his octave control and endurance are not quite yundi li level. he would make my top10 list for sure, but i believe fo example, LANG LANG's overall technique is better.

[orlandopiano]

well, i dont think you can be THAT conclusive with any pianist. indeed, Kissin often gives the impression of plenty of speed in reserve. but sometimes he DOES let his limits show, at the end of la campanella for example. i think it's fair to say his octave control and endurance are not quite yundi li level. he would make my top10 list for sure, but i believe fo example, LANG LANG's overall technique is better.

I am glad you bring up Yundi Li, because I do prefer him over Kissin. But I don't believe either he nor Lang Lang have a more refined technique than Kissin.

And I am just curious how you can think Lang Lang's is better. They offer a pretty easy comparison because they've both recorded the 2nd and 3rd concertos of Rachmaninoff. Kissin captures every note like they were the easiest pieces in the world, while Lang Lang sounds like he's trying his absolute hardest to keep up with the orchestra in places.  And Lang Lang's thick chordal sections sound a little sluggish.

[chromatickler]

unfortunately out of the 4 ive only heard kissin's rach2. but i'll take your word that he sounds more relaxed and at ease in them than langlang. my opinion of langlang's technique is made up from the various live recordings/footage ive seen. comparing that with recordings/videos of kissin i believe langlang has greater capacity for speed. and that's what i look for when i compare technique. when you see langlang's dexterity in action you can gauge the sort of speed he is capable of. things like the ending octaves of the horowitz hungarian rhapsody#2, the chromatics and thirds in the don juan etc. but i would agree with you that kissin's technique sounds more polished and consistent. and im guessing this is because he's simply older and more experienced. the live tchaik1 with karajan when he was 17 offers a fairer comparison with langlang's rach3 possibly.

and btw, it's quite risky to use the huge chordal sections (in the rach3 mvmt1 especially) for technical comparison. hardly anyone plays ALL the notes. in fact i have a live recording of hamelin who blazez through that huge chordal climax at record speed, but it all sounds just a tiny bit too thin to be fully convincing.

[etudes]

I was very impressed by what I heard by Konstantin Sherbakov

What do you think about him?

i heard his strauss transcription cd
quite cd and freaking technique

[stevie]

i heard his strauss transcription cd
quite cd and freaking technique

yes, and his godowsky is the best(well...the only) alternative to hamelin's

he also plays some great medtner, i think he also tackled the lyapunov etudes

[musicsdarkangel]

well, i dont think you can be THAT conclusive with any pianist. indeed, Kissin often gives the impression of plenty of speed in reserve. but sometimes he DOES let his limits show, at the end of la campanella for example. i think it's fair to say his octave control and endurance are not quite yundi li level. he would make my top10 list for sure, but i believe fo example, LANG LANG's overall technique is better.

I disagree so much, it's unreal.

I prefer Yundi 100X more than Kissin, but when it comes to technique, Kissin slaughters Yundi.

[stevie]

I disagree so much, it's unreal.

I prefer Yundi 100X more than Kissin, but when it comes to technique, Kissin slaughters Yundi.

this is pretty stupid, yundi li's octaves are so OBVIOUSLY superior.

and finger technique...well just listen to yundi li's la campanella and chopin 10/2

the speed and evenness of his work with even the outer fingers is phenomenal

in la campanella he fingers the chromatic scales with 1-2, and sounds faster and WAY more even than those that use all 5 fingers.

compare both of their live campanella videos, the superior technician is obvious.

[orlandopiano]

this is pretty stupid, yundi li's octaves are so OBVIOUSLY superior.

and finger technique...well just listen to yundi li's la campanella and chopin 10/2

the speed and evenness of his work with even the outer fingers is phenomenal

in la campanella he fingers the chromatic scales with 1-2, and sounds faster and WAY more even than those that use all 5 fingers.

compare both of their live campanella videos, the superior technician is obvious.

I think what's stupid is that you're comparing Yundi Li's La Campanella, which looks like it was recorded and highly edited for a made-for-tv movie... with Kissin's, who played it LIVE at the Proms, as one of his later ENCORES, drenched in sweat after having already performed a massive recital. Not really a fair comparison, is it?  And how can you use Etude 10/2 for comparison when Kissin's never recorded it?

[stevie]

i wasnt using the 10/2 for comparison, just showing how stunningly even his fingerwork can be.

the made-for-tv video isnt the one im talking about

i have seen a few live videos of him playing this, also as an encore, in concerts

the best quality is a live in japan video, which is the one i did a direct comparison with kissin on

kissin is about 1 second slower in the final section(where octave and general wrist speed and endurance is involved)
that isnt the point, kissin could play at the same speed as yundi li, im sure.

but it is glaringly clear who is superior, kissin SWEATS through it, making it look like the hardest piece in the world, and you can tell hes giving it everything he has, but his accuracy.....

this is the difference with yundi, yundi makes only 1 or 2 slight mistakes(wheras kissin makes a good few dozen) and looks stunningly CHILLED, as though he were playing the easiest piece in the world!
yundi looks like he has TONS of speed in reserve, with him the sky seems to be the limit.

i actually prefer watching kissin, its more exciting, but yundi clearly has the superior octave technique.

[orlandopiano]

i wasnt using the 10/2 for comparison, just showing how stunningly even his fingerwork can be.

They both can make claim to the most even fingerwork. Listen to Kissin's Prokofiev Etude 2/3 recorded live at Carnegie Hall (I believe he was 17). Listen to his Fuex Follets.  Listen to the first statement of the main theme of Rach 2nd, 3rd movement. Fingerwork doesn't get more even than that.  You might be right about the octaves though.  Yundi Li's are incredible.  But what about powerful chord playing? Listen to Kissin's Rach 3rd cadenza, or better yet his Wilde Jagd. I've never heard the latter played so fiercly by anyone. Oh and before we give the octave title to Yundi, listen to Kissin's astonishing display of octave jumps (played pp) near the end of Wilde Jagd.

the made-for-tv video isnt the one im talking about

i have seen a few live videos of him playing this, also as an encore, in concerts

the best quality is a live in japan video, which is the one i did a direct comparison with kissin on

kissin is about 1 second slower in the final section(where octave and general wrist speed and endurance is involved)
that isnt the point, kissin could play at the same speed as yundi li, im sure.

but it is glaringly clear who is superior, kissin SWEATS through it, making it look like the hardest piece in the world, and you can tell hes giving it everything he has, but his accuracy.....

this is the difference with yundi, yundi makes only 1 or 2 slight mistakes(wheras kissin makes a good few dozen) and looks stunningly CHILLED, as though he were playing the easiest piece in the world!

Well then I am not familiar with the Yundi Li performance you are speaking of. In any case, Kissin makes more mistakes than usual in that encore performance.  I doubt it was a case of sweating through La Campanella, as much as it was sweating through the culmination of a full recital plus encores.  it's unfair to judge his ability to play that piece based on that one performance.

[stevie]

ill agree its hard to say concerning finger technique, both are amazing.

im just really sure that yundi's octaves are quite a bit superior, i have seen quite a few kissin videos and i have a good gauge of his speed and endurance capacity, dont get me wrong it is VERY VERY good, i cant play like that, but yundi is in another league altogether.

regarding the wild jagd -

https://sinadin.tripod.com/wjsample.WAV

bad sound quality, but how does kissin compare to this sample of richter? 

[mrchops10]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly defines a great technique? It it the ability to play anything? In this case, freaks like Hamelin and Volodos are probably unsurpassed in history. However, I imagine that great technique is the ability to play one's own reportoire astonishingly. In this respect, I think Glenn Gould could be said to posess one of the great techniques. His Bach was so perfect, so even and clear. Gilels, too, was a master of piano technique in Beethoven. Also, Gieseking was a master of pedal technique. Technique extends WAY beyond the ability to play the most difficult music quickly and accurately. It encompasses pedaling, sound production, articulation. Technique is idiomatic to whatever music you play, but playing any music technically adeptly requires a great technician.

[orlandopiano]

ill agree its hard to say concerning finger technique, both are amazing.

im just really sure that yundi's octaves are quite a bit superior, i have seen quite a few kissin videos and i have a good gauge of his speed and endurance capacity, dont get me wrong it is VERY VERY good, i cant play like that, but yundi is in another league altogether.

regarding the wild jagd -

https://sinadin.tripod.com/wjsample.WAV

bad sound quality, but how does kissin compare to this sample of richter? 

You're right, bad sound quality.   It's Richter, so I can only imagine it being great.

Now, speaking of those staccato octave jumps in Wilde Jagd, I doubt anyone can do better than Kissin:
https://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=2188829

[stevie]

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly defines a great technique? It it the ability to play anything? In this case, freaks like Hamelin and Volodos are probably unsurpassed in history. However, I imagine that great technique is the ability to play one's own reportoire astonishingly. In this respect, I think Glenn Gould could be said to posess one of the great techniques. His Bach was so perfect, so even and clear. Gilels, too, was a master of piano technique in Beethoven. Also, Gieseking was a master of pedal technique. Technique extends WAY beyond the ability to play the most difficult music quickly and accurately. It encompasses pedaling, sound production, articulation. Technique is idiomatic to whatever music you play, but playing any music technically adeptly requires a great technician.

what you say is true, but when comparing techniques in a general way, the raw speed and endurance of each of the digits and wrists are paramount.

[sevencircles]

Glenn Gould´s Bach was amazing and I would call his technique superior to most virtuosos including Horowitz.

He would deserve a place on the list I agree about that.

I don´t think Volodos or even Hamelin  is unsurpassed in history. we all know that even Marc-André can be sloppy at times.

[stevie]

Glenn Gould´s Bach was amazing and I would call his technique superior to most virtuosos including Horowitz.

He would deserve a place on the list I agree about that.

I don´t think Volodos or even Hamelin  is unsurpassed in history. we all know that even Marc-André can be sloppy at times.

when considering accuracy, you have to also take into account the amount of repertoire the pianist performs.

volodos has nowhere near the repertoire that hamelin has, and the odd slip-up on hamelins part doesnt mean he is any lesser a technician.

and gould, ill agree about general finger technique, he was better than horowitz, but what about octave technique?

[etudes]

yes, and his godowsky is the best(well...the only) alternative to hamelin's

he also plays some great medtner, i think he also tackled the lyapunov etudes

where i can find lyapunov cd
i have only sheet music and wanna hear it!
btw i like octave from li more than kissin
i prefer kissin when he was still young more than now

[sevencircles]

5 players in the list  stand out based on recordings!

These are Hamelin, Hofmann, Pollini, Ashenazy and Barere

Pollini for having the largest memorized and technically perfected repertoire of any pianist I know of.  At least in terms of pieces from different eras.

Hofmann for the best pedaltechnique and the most even speedscales and arpeggios

Hamelin for many reasons already mentioned

Askenazy for the largest technically perfected repertiore (not memorized always though)

Richter had a huge repertoire as well but not as technically perfected.

Barere for being the fastest stiffaction player I have heard. Would propably be a lot better if he didn´t drink as much.

Barere recorded one of the best Don Juan (Liszt), Oriental fantasies, Legierezza (Liszt) and the best left hand Etude (Blumenfeldt)

If you ask me!

[daniel patschan]

Recently, i heard a recording of F. Busoni playing the Norma Fantasy (Liszt). And do you know something ? I seriously doubt that even Hamelin or Libetta or Sgouros or Volodos or whoever could play with comparable speed (10 minutes !) and perfection. He played the octaves faster than most people were able to run single note scales. This guy was completely mad ! I have heard a lot of piano recordings in my life but this one was defenitely hair-rising !!!

[xvimbi]

Recently, i heard a recording of F. Busoni playing the Norma Fantasy (Liszt). And do you know something ? I seriously doubt that even Hamelin or Libetta or Sgouros or Volodos or whoever could play with comparable speed (10 minutes !) and perfection. He played the octaves faster than most people were able to run single note scales. This guy was completely mad ! I have heard a lot of piano recordings in my life but this one was defenitely hair-rising !!!

One has to be careful, because piano rolls easily can be speeded up. To take a passage from Wikipedia:

"The value of these recordings in ascertaining Busoni's performance style is a matter of some dispute. Many of his collegues and students expressed disappointment with the recordings and felt they did not truly represent Busoni's pianism. His student Egon Petri was horrified by the piano roll recordings when they first appeared on LP and said that it was a travesty of Busoni's playing. Similarly, Petri's student Gunnar Johansen who had heard Busoni play on several occasions, remarked, "Of Busoni's piano rolls and recordings, only Feux follets (Liszt's 5th Transcendental Etude) is really something unique. The rest is curiously unconvincing. The recordings, especially of Chopin, are a plain misalliance". However, Kaikhosru Sorabji, a fervent admirer, found the records to be the best piano recordings ever made when they were released."

I find it interesting that Sorabji is the only one who liked Busoni's recording. I wonder what that says about those who like Sorabji

(Sorry, I got a little side tracked...)

[stevie]

its both hilarious and disgustingly ignorant that pollini and rach are ranked above cziffra, pollini and rachmaninov arent even top tier.

and the busoni piano rolls...hilarious and actually quite interesting and good in places, but the speed is obviously fake.

[sevencircles]

Pollini in his prime had incredible technique.

Boulez second piano Sonata as well as Bartok 2 (with Pollini´s cedenza) is in many ways harder to play then anything Cziffra did.

Pollini´s repertoire (did at least) contain everything from Baroque to Postserialism.

I would say that Pollini´s technique surpasses Cziffra´s (Both pianists "prime technique" are compared)

Cziffra´s  superior musicallity makes him  greater in  most other aspects though.