interesting concept

[BoliverAllmon]

I was talking to a piano teacher recently and he said something that got me thinking. Tell me what you think. He believes that it is perfectly ok for students to play more mature pieces. He just goes in with the idea that they are not going to play it at a professional level and why should they they are not professional yet. He feels that this propels their technique and musicality further than playing simpler works. Too many teachers force students to achieve such a stupid level of perfection on every piece that the students actually suffer because of this. They never learn how to tackle several pieces at a time because they are always working on the same few pieces. Their sight-reading is down the drain, because they are only looking at the same pieces for an entire year or so.

agree or disagree.

[pianobabe_56]

I guess I would agree. Playing something that is rediculously out of my reach, somehow helps me play everything I CAN play...better. I wouldn't ever make it a habit to play those pieces, but every few months I attempt it, smile at my utter and complete failure, and go practice.

As for some piano teachers forcing their students to learn it to perfection, I would say that what they're really trying to do is help them put some musicality and expression into it.

[thalberg]

I think that students who just look at the same few pieces for a year simply don't practice enough.  But I do believe in giving students things that are over their heads.  Simpler music develops reading, harder music develops problem solving.  Do both, I say.

[faulty_damper]

I agree.  I was in for a shock when I had to learn 4 cantrasting pieces in one semester, and three of them I did not have the technique for, and all three were pieces I had chosen, which apparently turned out to be more difficult than what most of the other students were to learn, and I am not yet a performance major, but these pieces will put me there.  The other piece is so easy I can't even play it because it is so easy and I just don't spend the time practicing it.

And I had to miss the performance examination because I was only able to play that easy piece, which I hate now, because I was told to play it in a manner that went against what is considered good music (no repeats, embellish it like a madman because the jurors do not want to hear repeats... makes me sick to turn something like that into trash).

But it was the first time I had to learn so many pieces within such a short time.

[Tash]

I think that students who just look at the same few pieces for a year simply don't practice enough. But I do believe in giving students things that are over their heads. Simpler music develops reading, harder music develops problem solving. Do both, I say.

i agree with that- the problem i've just come to realise with doing only a piano exam once a year rather than having school performance assessments as well is that i spend so long working on only a few pieces that i'm not pushing myself to get them up to a performable level for ages, so i can't wait til next year when i'm learning new pieces every semester, cos i'm just not pushing myself.

so yeah giving the harder and easier pieces is good- i take to sightreading easier pieces and messing around with them in my spare time so i'm not having a heart attack trying to perfect my main pieces. i agree with doing both

[prometheus]

Hasn't Bernard been saying this for years?

[BoliverAllmon]

Bernhard (at least what I can remember) says to play easier repertoire. learn 20 pieces a year type thing. If you think semester work is hard, try quarter system. even harder.

[nanabush]

Ya If you're learning pieces like Mary Had a little lamb, and twinkle little star, I think a good shot at Islamey would help sight reading... definitaly...

j/k, it does help me to attempt harder repertoire, then going back I find my main repertoire a bit simpler...

[bernhard]

One must make a difference between impossibly difficult repertory, completely out of one’s reach, and challenging repertory.

What is the difference?

Impossibly difficult repertory are those pieces that no matter how much you want to play them are completely impossible for your current level, no matter how much you practise them. After working on them for a while you start feeling depressed, unmotivated, you feel you are no good, completely hopeless and you will never make it as a pianist. Soon you are procrastinating practise. Next you become an alcoholic, a drug addict, your better half leaves you (and takes the children) you don’t bother washing anymore, you cannot even muster enough energy to commit suicide.

Therefore avoid such pieces.

Challenging repertory on the other hand is repertory that you can not quite play, but it feels like you should be able to. Its difficulty is just outside your present abilities, and yet, it seems like with a bit of effort you will be able to conquer it, and indeed that proves to be the case when you start working on it. Challenging repertory is incredibly motivating, empowers you like nothing else, and builds up your confidence that you can do anything you choose to. The beauty of challenging repertory is that it can and it will actually be conquered without that much effort, at which point another piece will replace it as “challenging”. Keep repeating the process – which is always a joy – and soon, you get to the point where impossible repertory becomes “challenging” in turn. 

Therefore, when faced with an impossibly difficult piece, the best strategy is to create a ladder of increasingly challenging pieces that naturally lead to the impossibly difficult one.

So my suggestion is not so much to work in “easy” repertory (which is not a bad idea considering how many beautiful, yet easy, pieces are around), but rather to organise learning on an increasingly challenging sequence of pieces.

Challenges are exciting (in fact, if you get the right level of challenge in your next piece, you will find difficult going to sleep, you will wake up early just to work on it – remember the night before xmas? It is a similar feeling). Impossible pieces are soul destroying. Observe your inner reactions, and you should have no difficulty discriminating.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Hasn't Bernard been saying this for years?

Er... actually, just over a year.

[BoliverAllmon]

thanks for the post.

[pianohopper]

Okay, so we covered difficult/challenging works.

But what about, for example, somebody under 40 yrs attempting to play a Beethoven sonata above Op. 90?  There's no point!  Even if they can play the notes, there's no possible understanding of the piece, because it's way too mature.  The emotion would be nonexistent. 

Is there a reason to play pieces you cannot understand?

[minimozart007]

Er...could you please be more specific with your question?

[BoliverAllmon]

Okay, so we covered difficult/challenging works.

But what about, for example, somebody under 40 yrs attempting to play a Beethoven sonata above Op. 90?  There's no point!  Even if they can play the notes, there's no possible understanding of the piece, because it's way too mature.  The emotion would be nonexistent. 

Is there a reason to play pieces you cannot understand?

someone under 40 can play the sonata well and maturely. I understand your point, but don't agree with your time frame.

[pianohopper]

but what I'm trying to say is, Op. 90 and above was Beethoven's "third stage."  He was getting old, going deaf, having trouble.  How can you understand what he's putting down on the page without experiencing at least some of it yourself. 

[prometheus]

Okay, so we covered difficult/challenging works.

But what about, for example, somebody under 40 yrs attempting to play a Beethoven sonata above Op. 90?  There's no point!  Even if they can play the notes, there's no possible understanding of the piece, because it's way too mature.  The emotion would be nonexistent. 

Is there a reason to play pieces you cannot understand?

What has age to do with playing music? Age doesn't mean you have a more mature sense for music. It takes time and study of concepts of art and philosoply. Sure life experience will help too. But waiting in a room doing nothing until you are 40 doesn't help your playing. Obviously.

Like my brain checks my internal chronometer and if it is below 40 years it blocks my understanding of that piece