is this true or is it just me

[ryan2189]

I practice daily on an upright piano but the other day I happened to have the opprotunity to play on a baby grand. I started to play and I have to say that my speed, accuracy, and dynamics seemed so much better. Obviously their are major diffeences between the grand and the upright, but do you believe that conditioning your fingers on an upright piano in yur first few years of playing may actually help to better you playing later on once you play on or upgrade to a grand or baby grand. My theory is that you need to work just a bit harder to play good on an upright and this allows you to play even better when it comes time to perform on a grand.

[lagin]

I totally agree.

[jeremyjchilds]

I partially agree.

A piano that has a limited dynamic range can make you work harder..that's good.

But that's just about the only thing I can think of that would be good. playing a piano with Damper problems, sticky key bushings, inconsistent tone quality, inconsistent center pins, and ect. will not make you a better piano player. (not saying that your piano has these problems)

Granted that your playing suprised you when you got on the grand...you are on a grand!! Imagine how much better you would have played if you had taken years to get to know the quirks of that instrument.

I really like your thinking, but I don't think that a formula one driver would benefit by driving my mom's corolla around the track...

[iumonito]

To the original question, the better the piano, the easier it is to play: the action is lighter and more responsive.

And to the comment that working harder is good, I think your comment is lost in semantics:  it is good to work hard, but it is silly to work harder than necessary for the same results.  A bad piano stiffles the imagination.  A heavy piano discourages virtuosity and encourages bad habits, such as playing hyper-tense.

[grazioso]

I partially agrre that working on an upright may help develope technique due to the slighlty harder work of pressing down the keys BUT not worth it for the practice at so many other things you can get on a grand e.g tone, middle pedal, sound production. I sometimes find it frustrating not being able to get a good tone out of an upright especially when used to practicing on grands.

[faulty_damper]

I highly doubt playing on an upright will improve playing on a grand.  If this were true, then then other piano students would play superbly when they play on the concert grands since most of them practice on the uprights at school.  But no, they don't.  There are many things that learning to play on an upright will hinder a student including how to attack the keys, different pedalling techniques, and listening to the tone.  The few who do have access to a grand at home, on the other hand, play far more musically are able to attain different varieties of touch, and have better pedal control, when they do play on the concert grands.

But maybe it could be that those whe don't practice on a grand don't have the time to practice on the concert grand to get the feel for it yet...


The touch difference you feel is because the action is far superior to an upright.  Grand action can never be replaced and you'll be able to play much more effectively.  It's is likened to driving an old Volkswagon Beetle and then driving a new recent model Beetle - there will be noticeable improvements in all areas.  But don't expect that improvement to translate back to the old Beetle because it is not the driver but the car.

[thalberg]

My theory: play on the most capable piano possible.  Then you'll know what dynamics and virtuosity you're  capable of, and you'll naturally make them happen when you play inferior instruments. 

On the other hand: Inferior instruments limit what you can do in the first place.  Then of course everything you do comes out better on a superior instrument, but are you really aiming high enough to begin with?

[Siberian Husky]

you know..whenever i play on a grand..iplay worse..this is why i prefer uprights over grands...but maybe its just a phase

[allchopin]

Chopin refused to practice on anything less than a well-conditioned piano and advised against doing so.  His Pleyel followed him where he went.

[rich_galassini]

The first time I played on a grand, I was amazed at how much better I performed.

Thalberg said it best.

allchopin,

Thats true, but didn't Chopin play on an upright most of the time?

[lagin]

I highly doubt playing on an upright will improve playing on a grand.  If this were true, then then other piano students would play superbly when they play on the concert grands since most of them practice on the uprights at school.  But no, they don't.  There are many things that learning to play on an upright will hinder a student including how to attack the keys, different pedalling techniques, and listening to the tone.  The few who do have access to a grand at home, on the other hand, play far more musically are able to attain different varieties of touch, and have better pedal control, when they do play on the concert grands.

But maybe it could be that those whe don't practice on a grand don't have the time to practice on the concert grand to get the feel for it yet...


The touch difference you feel is because the action is far superior to an upright.  Grand action can never be replaced and you'll be able to play much more effectively.  It's is likened to driving an old Volkswagon Beetle and then driving a new recent model Beetle - there will be noticeable improvements in all areas.  But don't expect that improvement to translate back to the old Beetle because it is not the driver but the car.

These are really good points.  I concur.  I no longer "totally agree."  I just happened to have practiced a Handel piece on an upright and won a scholarship with it on a grand, but in hind sight, that grand had a way easier action than my piano, and I never needed to use the pedal.  And it was a grade 6 RCM piece so it wasn't very demanding as far as amount of sound goes.  And I prayed before hand as I was scared out of my boots, and God heard, lol.  But yes, my teacher told me more than once that it was a good idea to get a grand if I wanted to get my diploma in performance.  So I change my mind.

[llamaman]

Yup. Or so I believe. My parents want to switch our Baby Grand for an Upright. I can't believe they want to take away my piano .

[allthumbs]

Greetings

I really like your thinking, but I don't think that a formula one driver would benefit by driving my mom's corolla around the track...

I agree with your post and love your analogy.

Cheers

allthumbs

[steve jones]

Some great points!

Funnily enough we were only just discussing a very similar topic:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,12329.0.html

I tend to agree with both camps to be honest. I do see how playing on a lower quality instrument might lead to compensations with the technique, formation of bad habits etc. I can also see that playing a better instrument might aid development by showing up mistakes to a greater extent.

But I honestly believe that the extra effort taken to make a lower grade instrument sound good, will prove valuable to a student. If you can got on with a poor quality instrument, then upgrading will be like peace after pain.

Iv seen it myself plenty of times. I taught several kids guitar while at uni, and they would always turn up with these cranky old classical guitars, yet want to play rock music. For the first month or so they would struggle on the classical, but once upgrading to a better instrument their technique improved immensely. Those kids who had great instruments to start with never had to go that extra mile to make the instrument sound good, and hence never reaped the benefit of this graft.

This ofcourse was with total beginners. I would imagine this might change with time. Once the fundamental technical aspects had been mastered, I'd think it time to use an instrument of appropriate quality. Hence my belief that an upgrade is due around gr4-6 level.

[ryan2189]

Excellent post steve. I think that pretty much sums up what I was tring to articulate. Thanks. 

[Bob]

I vote for the grand, full size.  It can do more.  The upright holds you back.

[g_s_223]

As I see it, a key problem with (most) uprights is the sound decays much quicker than it does on a grand. The effect of this seems to be that the overall dynamic range is compressed and subtleties of voicing are lost. Effectively, if you play very quietly, the sound just disappears.

When I've seen a pianist who normally plays uprights play my grand, they have a lot of difficulty controlling the volume and getting real shadings of dynamics. Note that this is from my perspective as a listener: the players themselves did not really "hear" that they were "overplaying" because they were unaccustomed to the potentialities of the instrument.

They could transition over from upright to grand (as I did some years ago) and acquire these new or under-developed skills, but it took me ~3 months to really start to understand what a grand could do. If I was moving backwards and forwards between the two types, this would be a problem I think.

[pianorama]

you know..whenever i play on a grand..iplay worse..this is why i prefer uprights over grands...but maybe its just a phase

Bad! Bad siberian husky! jk     ....Though seriously, what's wrong with you? You like uprights better than grands? Weird.....